Seldon actually showed to know something for once, even though he got it from Wikipedia. Though he didn’t include everything.
Black Bolt can channel his electron manipulation to boost his strength to above Rogue, in addition to the “Master Blow” which is much higher than normal strength levels. He can also manipulate electrons to create force-fields and crude constructs. And his matter manipulation, through electron manipulation, has allowed him to do things like turning matter into anti-matter, as well as containing them in force fields. He also once defeated Hulk by manipulating Hulk’s electrons so Hulk attracted every single potential lightning bolt in the area, and was KOed. Though I’m also pretty sure that Black Bolt has taken-out Hulk a couple other times, with his “voice.” Once was the Seldon mentioned, another was he actually scanned Hulk’s structure and fine-tuned it specifically for the Hulk to take, but I could be confusing that with a fight with Gladiator.
Also to clarify, originally it wasn’t his “voice” that was the power. The attack is actually electrons manipulated in an attack, in the most potent, powerful way he has. The speech area of his brain is what controls it, so that’s why whenever he speaks he uses it. Some writers have made it partially sonic in nature, but the original intent had no actually sound for the attack.
And onto Green Lantern, here’s some stuff the Kyle Rayner has done. Contained nuclear explosions, contained a supernova, protected him and his New Corps. from a lightyear-wide cosmic storm that was destroying moons and planets, lifted a city into orbit, KOed white Martians, created a construct that held the “weight of eternity” in place, was one of the three to tow the Moon so fast through Earth’s gravity that it caught fire around the atmosphere and then towed it back to it’s proper orbit in seconds so he helped tow I think over 80 million tons of mass at about half of light speed, recreated Pluto, used the Power Ring for various enhanced or extra senses, created constructs that mimic the powers of others(Flash like speed and Speed Force manipulation, Superman-level strength, ect.), he’s been shown capable of creating black holes and causing supernovas, healed himself with it, and more.
I’m not picking and choosing what crossovers are cannon and what aren’t. For example, DC VERSUS MARVEL and JLA/AVENGERS both had titles from the regular line-ups that tied in those crossovers to make them cannon.
JLA VERSUS PREDATOR, SUPERMAN VERSUS PREDATOR and BATMAN VERSUS PREDATOR, as well as other titles like JLA/WITCHBLADE, don’t have anything specifically saying they’re not in continuity. Though there is a mention in JLA VERSUS PREDATOR that states even if they’re not cannon with the main-stream DCU, they’re in their own little mini-continuity.
Now there’s a BATMAN/DAREDEVIL Graphic Novel that actually states it’s an ELSEWORLDS. The Batman/Captain America crossover where Batman and Captain America switch sidekicks in World War Two obviously couldn’t be in continuity since current continuity has Batman and Dick Grayson be way too young to have served in WWII even if there wasn’t the little fact that it had ELSEWORLDS on it. The Batman/Spawn crossover that’s set in the DARK KNIGHT RETURNS era doesn’t have ELSEWORLDS on it, but specifically says it’s not in continuity.
So I’m not picking and choosing, since some have regular titles putting the crossovers into continuity, some don’t to my knowledge but have nothing saying they’re not so they may or may not be cannon, and others out-right state they’re not in continuity, with most of those being ELSEWORLDS.
So, once again, you should just shut the fuck up you dumbass bitch and actually learn a little so you don’t show yourself to be the blithering idiot you obviously are.
As to Darkseid being nowhere near as powerful as Odin, did you ignore the numerous examples I gave? You’ve failed before in your arguments to prove other-wise, and gave very poor examples if you even argued.
And Darryl, I’ve stated my reasons why some crossovers are cannon, some might be or might not be, and others are out-right stated to not be.
And I’ve stated my reasons why Darkseid is in Odin’s league, so you should actually give a reason instead of just saying he’s not.
Oh Seldon, also would love to know your answer to this.
Why is it that when I pointed-out numerous examples of Superman beating characters in the Skyfather-level and higher, like Entities beyond Galactus, you only argue on Darkseid? I mean do you even know about any of the other characters I mentioned, or are you just ignoring them and hope you can look good by arguing against Darkseid, when I’ve given better reasons for my argument than you gave for your’s?
Are you just that stupid to think I won’t notice you ignoring all my other examples? I at least try to respond to all of your points. I’m not perfect so I could miss some. But I still do a far better job than you out-right excluding the other 10 examples just because you think you can win the one example you sorta kinda have a slight idea about.
In addition to the considerable military forces at his command, Darkseid himself is quite formidable. His main power is the Omega Beam or Omega Effect, which is fired from his eyes. The Omega Effect is not only a powerful attack, but can teleport the target anywhere Darkseid chooses, erase the target from existence instantly and can then restore the target if he chooses. The Omega Effect is not limited to traveling in straight lines, able to bend or twist as needed. It can traverse time and different universes, and go through some barriers such as Orion’s body.
Darkseid also possesses strength, speed, and stamina rivalling that of Superman. He has overpowered the demon Etrigan, and Lobo hurt his hand by punching Darkseid’s face.
Darkseid has the ability to transmute matter. He turned Ol-Vir, a Daxamite, into dust, soap into dirt, and Slo-bo into a statue. He can teleport. He also has mind control greater than that of Sleez. According to Orion, he can travel through time as easily as any god. He can create life, as he did when he created Stayne. This comes supermansupersite.com.
Now onto Odin. While this is just a few examples of the Odin force it is Odin at his most powerful.Odinforce: Odin was capable of manipulating vast amounts of magical energy, referred to as the Odin Power, or the Odin Force, for a number of purposes. With this power, Odin was capable of feats such as transporting the entire human race to an alternate dimension, [5] casting foes into deep space with a thought[6], projecting force blasts[7], erecting highly durable force fields [8] altering size [9], endowing people or objects with powers [10], and compressing the population of an entire planet into a single being, namely Mangog.[11] Odin was highly skilled in the use of his powers during combat situations, and was able to casually knock around the Silver Surfer and Thanos simultaneously[12] and even put the Silver Surfer down in one simple blast when he got annoyed as he kept asking them to stand down but they kept attacking to no avail, as they’re attacks could not even phase Odin. He has taken away a soul from the demonic entity Mephisto [13]; Odin’s power is also said to surpass Mephisto’s, as Dormammu was considered the former demon’s superior and claimed his own magic rivaled that of Odin’s and Zeus’s. Odin’s full power is thus considered equal to that of Zeus, Dormammu, and most every other deity of Earth not of the Elder Gods, such as Vishnu, as well as Agamotto, as Dormammu held his own against both Oshtur’s son and his disciple beyond his native dimension. Odin’s power was so vast, that when a part of Odin, his dark side called Infinity went rogue, it was so large that it could crush planets in its grip as if they were pebbles, his mere limbs stretched as far as galaxies, Infinity was tearing away at the very fabric of the Universe, and if left unchecked would have ended all life and crushed the very Universe. Odin’s battle with Infinity destroyed entire galaxies and countless worlds. This comes from MarvelWikia. It was just faster for me to do it this way than it would have been for me to type it all in myself. Gotta love copy and paste.
Anyway, with this being said I would have to say based on Odin’s feats vs Darseid feats alone I would have to give the fight to Odin. Although in certain circumstances I’m sure that Darkseid would defeat Odin. But overall I would have to give the fight to Odin. Just my opinion on this, and ya know what they say opinions are like assholes everybody’s got one.
So, Seldon, I’ll give a few more examples as well as reiterating examples you ignore.
But first, since you made such a big deal out of claiming that Thanos was going to beat Darkseid if they were allowed to fight and made the point that Silver Surfer’s beaten Thanos and Silver Surfer’s nowhere near Galactus, I’ll reiterate what I’ve said and go into a bit more.
Not only did a combined blast from Storm and Silver Surfer do nothing to Darkseid, but he also took-down Thor rather easily with a single blast of Omega Beams. Thor’s beaten Silver Surfer AND Galactus, and did a lot better against Zeus than he did agianst Darkseid.
By comparison, Thanos had been hurt by Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. Though the Captain Marvel/Wonder Woman/Green Lantern team didn’t take-down Thanos either, they were more effective against Thanos than the Thor/Silver Surfer/Storm team were against Darkseid.
I mentioned before that Darkseid was actually able to hurt The Spectre. Spectre had to use his full measure of might to get through the energy that Darkseid was using, and when he “killed” Darkseid with a massive energy blast, Darkseid quickly reformed and said he was too important to the Universe to die.
DC’s Odin had stated that Darkseid had power beyond his ability to comprehend. While it being DC Odin doesn’t mean it’s automatically the same as Marvel’s Odin, the DC Odin was powerful enough to create his own universe. And DC’s Odin was actually referring to not just himself, but other Skyfathers, in regards to being unable to comprehend Darkseid’s power.
Not sure if GREAT DARKNESS SAGA was retconned or not, but in that, he easily defeated and absorbed the power of Mordru, who was at least as powerful as the entire Legion Of Super-Heroes which included Pre-CRISIS Kryptonians and a Pre-CRISIS Mon-El. That’s at the least approaching Skyfather-level.
When Kalibak was charged with only a fraction of Darkseid’s power, he beat Orion to death. Orion was only saved by Valkyra sacrificing herself to Black Racer to save Orion.
When Darkseid was linked in power to Doctor Fate, Orion, Highfather and Etrigan, he accidentally destroyed an entire alternate universe with a casual blast when trying to hit the Anti-Life Entity, which was stated to be omnipotent. I’d say even contributing to 20% of destroying an entire universe would put him on the level of Odin, but Darkseid very well could’ve contributed more since he was shown as more powerful than Orion.
And onto you saying Orion’s only a top-tier at best, not only did Orion contribute to a casual energy blast that destroyed an entire universe, but he was able to match and contain a bomb that was going to destroy the Universe. While his Astro-Force’s nature being part of his ability to do this, it’s countered by the fact that Orion was weak when he did this.
Now back to Darkseid. He was a big contributor to piercing the armor of Imperiex Prime, an Entity that actually consumed entire galaxies, and was going to destroy the Universe. This was also done through Superman being amped by absorbing an energy being who’s core was a reality manipulator and 30 B13-enhanced hydrogen bombs. Still though considering Imperiex Prime was one who devoured entire galaxies and with a few exceptions it took entire TEAMS to take-down ONE of his far far far far far inferior Probes, this is quite a feat.
When he was recharged he was going to destroy the Warworld enhanced by those Imperiex Prime energies AND being connected to Apokolips, but then they realized if he did that, it’d just release Imperiex again.
So, I’d say it’s fair to say Darkseid is in the same league as Odin. Plus, this is the ONLY one I mentioned that you’re capable of arguing to any extent. You ignored the other 10 or so examples I gave to back my point.
I think what other people arguing against me(not including you, since you just seemed to be pointing stuff out) fail to see is I never said Darkseid was more powerful. But showing he’s in the same league.
Basically this came about because I said if Superman had to save the day, he could beat Odin. Not in a straight-up brawl, but he could find some way to. And I gave numerous examples of Superman beating characters in Odin’s league and also Entities beyond Odin. Yet Seldon ignored the other 10 examples I gave and only focused on Darkseid.
He’s also been ignoring most of my examples and simply gave his own, when I at least respond to most, if not all, of his arguments. So the only reiterating I’m doing is points he didn’t even fucking acknowledge by and large.
I think the reason people ignore the most part of an argument and focus on one aspect alone is because it is much easier for them to rebut one example than it would be for them to rebut all of the examples you gave. And of course if it meant saving the day he would find a way, but I think that has more to do with the writing process and him being such an icon than it does about his actual power. I mean Odin could just think him to anywhere he wanted him to be and make it nearly impossible for him to get back and save the day, no matter how fast he can fly. See what I’m saying?
Yeah Odin could do that. Didn’t seem him do it to Silver Surfer, Doctor Strange and the Infinity Watch though and just put them in another dimension and have Thor be released from his imprisonment, instead of KOing Surfer pretty quick and then smacking around Thanos like he was a pimp punishing his ho holding money back on him.
Guess Superman’s not the only one guilty of not using his powers to the fullest!!
And you’re probably right that it’s easier for people to just focus on the one example they want to. Of course I don’t think Seldon even could argue the other examples I gave. I get a little annoyed that he says I reiterate “disproven” points when he normally ignores my points and gives his own examples. I at least acknowledge his points.
And then he just tries to say I only know about Superman like my points he can’t counter are invalid. Guess though that for me to ONLY know about Superman, I’d have to only read the comics that show him flying fast, lifting heavy stuff, and using his powers in non-combat ways, since any fight he has would “force” me to learn about the character he’s fighting.
Delta say
Why is it that when I pointed-out numerous examples of Superman beating characters in the Skyfather-level and higher, like Entities beyond Galactus, you only argue on Darkseid?
Sammy Answer
think the reason people ignore the most part of an argument and focus on one aspect alone is because it is much easier for them to rebut one example than it would be for them to rebut all of the examples you gave.
I agree with Sammy answer. I know Delta you have belitte Dr. Strange but he has defeat numerous high level entities but when anybody mention that to you quickly discards those facts state has been beaten by ninjas before. Superman not much different for all his feats Lex Luthor a human with no power has defeat superman and have come close to killing superman on multi-ocassions.
Darryl, I said you were an idiot because you tried to make a case that Superman’s speed is nothing to Doctor Strange. You failed so damn hard.
You gave no evidence whatsoever that Doctor Strange could deal with a full-on speed-blitz from Superman. Maybe you should actually have paid attention to what you said.
But you’re also the same guy who was stupid and ignorant enough to think Wonder Woman lifting over 500 tons was ridiculous, that Superman’s limit was 300 tons max, and never conceded to being wrong despite being given far too much proof to the contrary. Aquaman’s capable of lifting far more than 500 tons, and I’ve got the proof.
I also said if one were to argue that Doctor Strange is more powerful than Superman, his powers being magick based is the worst argument you can give. Does that mean Wrecker is more powerful than Superman?
Oh, and Darryl, I actually don’t know of any examples of Lex Luthor beating Superman in the sense of a one-on-one fight post-CRISIS. He’s “beaten” Superman in the sense of covering his ass so he can’t get into legal trouble on many occasions, but that’s nothing compared to you claiming Superman has no chance of beating Doctor Strange with a speed-blitz yet he’s been taken down by cannon-fodder Ninjas.
Really, if it weren’t for Superman’s morals, there’d be almost nothing Luthor could do to stop Superman from killing him. One time Superman had Luthor in his hands and was seriously considering killing Lex, there wasn’t anything he could do.
Well Darryl, will you even admit to being wrong on your strength limits for Wonder Woman and Superman? More than enough examples have obliterated your claims, which you didn’t even have anything to back-up. I guess you’re not man enough to admit when you’re wrong, and this isn’t even about opinion.
Delta you have fail so hard trying defend your opinions that you have been reduce to insulting other people for their opinions.
I don’t even get mad when you try your silly attempts to insult me because just let’s me know don’t have no real answers.
Why don’t you just admit base off his powers and feats Dr.Strange would have good shot at beating Superman but in opinion think superman might be able to overpower as fight when on. I could understand argument like that better, it would make more sense. Insteading try act like Dr. Strange would be beaten by superman moving at super speeds when you know Dr. Strange beaten enitities capable of attacking at speeds out thought.
Superman has long history doesn’t start at post crisis so my comment about Lex & superman are right.
You just can’t admit you’re wrong about your claim Wonder Woman’s limit was lifting 150 tons and Superman’s limit being 300 tons? Or are you so stupid you still think that’s the case?
I’m not insulting you because I have no arguments left, I’m insulting you because you really are a dumb fuck who doesn’t know shit about what he’s saying. You’re ignoring being proven to be out-right wrong and ignoring that my statements do hold water.
You failed to prove that the Entities you brought-up show Doctor Strange being able to handle Superman’s speed. You showed teleportation. What does that mean? It’s not the same as combat speed. Superman can in fact hit Doctor Strange perhaps billions of times before Strange could really react. There’s a huge difference between someone being able to move from point-a to point-b before Strange can react, then attack at normal speed, and moving from point-a to point-b and then attack Strange a minimum of dozens of times, but really thousands of times, before Strange could react. And with someone as strong as Superman, one hit would be all that’s needed.
And my argument about Doctor Strange was originally about if you want to say Doctor Strange is more powerful than Superman, don’t say because his powers are mystical is the reason. Using actual feats Strange has done is one thing, but exploiting a weakness doesn’t mean shit. Strange’s normal human speed and durability make him far more vulnerable to Superman’s blitzing than Strange’s powers being mystical in nature.
So say my “attempts” are silly all you want. They’re more observations than insults. You not being offended doesn’t change the validity that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Or do you still stand-by your claim that Superman can only lift 300 tons?
Oh and unless you’re talking about Pre-CRISIS Superman, then post-CRISIS is indeed the start of Superman’s encounters with Lex Luthor. They fucking threw-out almost everything regarding Superman’s history and started-over after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.
So I’m making a poor argument when you’re wrong just on the basis of not knowing continuity?
And Darryl, I’m still waiting for your response on what makes you think Superman can only lift 300 tons, if that’s still the case.
Or why you claimed most of the examples I gave would require a maximum strength of 300 tons when I gave examples of Superman THROWING into orbit something four times the size of a ship that weighs nearly 100,000 tons. Or two examples of Superman lifting subs that weight well over 20,000 tons. Or Superman casually lifting a mountain, which weighs a whole lot more than 300 tons. Or Superman lifting a weight a good deal over 300 tons while extremely weak and concussed.
Only a couple examples I gave were questionable to require a max of 300 tons, at best for your argument. The vast majority would require well over 300 tons easily, and every example most likely required more than 300 tons.
I will answer your question very easily I NEVER say Superman couldn’t lift over 300 tons. Matter-fact I told you his strenght limit was around 12 million tons even though you didn’t agree with that. I also believe I say if ton system was to apply to superman he would be in 300 ton level. Which is credit too Superman since Marvel stop at 100 ton with their characters. The big different is when start talking about Superman/Thor/Hulk your talking about heroes who normal measure of strenght real don’t apply. Do you think that 100 ton class Marvel mention is all Thor and Hulk can lift?
Darryl, you did indeed say Superman could only lift 300 tons max. This was after me asking if you thought Superman couldn’t lift much more than 500 tons due to your saying that Wonder Woman lifting over 500 tons was ridiculous. And you said it was Pre-CRISIS Superman who’s limit was 12 million tons, which was wrong too, even if his powers were halved. But opps you weren’t right about that either, they were reduced by a third and that lasted less than a year.
Until I brought-up the WHO’S WHO? entry on Superman you were saying Superman’s limit was 300 tons. Then you said his max was 6 million tons. This was his official limit, which probably wasn’t even followed, just post-CRISIS. Superman has grown far more powerful since.
You also said Wonder Woman could only lift 150 tons. And said you “didn’t buy it” when shown proof to the contrary.
So now you’re backtracking and saying you never said Superman can only lift 300 tons? That’s worse than your alleged I only having insulting you left. When I really am just throwing in observations between my arguments which more often than not have examples to back them up. You had no examples to back-up your claims of Wonder Woman being limited to 150 tons and Superman to 300 tons.
Actually Lex Luthor HAS almost killed superman a number of times, so you’re flat out wrong there, Delta. His point being that normal people have almost killed superman. But you can’t even accept that someone can ALMOST beat superman, nevermind that they actually did beat him. You live in a fantasy world. You seriously are like Al-Jeezera. And the reason people attack your weak arguments is because they are so stupid, its unbeliebvable that someone would even make half of them. Picking and choosing which crossovers are in continuity is just plain stupid. You take the ones that back up your claim that Superman is GOD as canon, and the ones that have weaker showings are not. Of course you have rationalizations why each one is canon or not, but I think everyone here on this site knows why you think certain ones are canon. You’re not fooling anyone.
Tell Delta, if Thor and Superman fought, would Superman invariably win every single fight?
Seldon don’t expect Delta to give you an honest answer. But use Delta own words that acknowledge Thor is more powerful then Superman the answer should be Thor would win a least 6 to 7 times out of 10.
Why am I not surprised you completely dodged the question as-to why you ONLY focus on the Darkseid example I gave? You don’t even know much about Darkseid, do you? And you can’t argue the other examples, can you? So why don’t you acknowledge them? Well most likely your ignorance would cause you to look closer to how stupid you really are.
Yeah, my arguments are weak. That’s why you ignore the majority of them. If they were so weak, you’d at least acknowledge them. But you don’t, because you can’t counter them.
I’m going to keep laughing at your calling the the Al Jezera of Superman. Considering that’s almost all you’re really doing you have nothing to fall back on. I at least give examples and counter arguments when I insult them, so I obviously don’t have only them to fall back on.
And it’s still pretty pathetic that you’re saying I’m picking and choosing what crossovers are canon and what aren’t. You just ignore my examples because it obliterates your pathetic attempt to discredit me. I’m so much smarter than you, and you just don’t want to acknowledge it, bitch.
And Darryl, fucking respond to my earlier posts to you. Why didn’t you? Is it because it proves you wrong and me right?
And how fucking stupid are you to say what I said means Thor would win at least 6 or 7 times out of 10? Tell me, if being more powerful meant you’re going to win the majority, then how the fuck did Thor beat Galactus despite that big a gap in power?
The way Superman and Thor stack-up against each other means Superman wins the majority. Many of the abilities that I think makes Thor more POWERFUL would have little to no use against Superman. But Superman’s speed will be far more devastating than several of those powers Thor has.
For example, say Guy A and Guy B have the same level of strength and durability, but Guy A also has vastly powerful senses. So Guy A is more powerful, but do you think that’s often going to make a difference in the fight? Once again Darryl, you justify my pointing-out that you’re stupid.
Funny Delta you never answer the question if you think Hulk and Thor can only can lift 100 tons?
And the answer to your Wonder Woman question is pre-crisis what I say about her is correct post crisis want you say is correct.
Her powers post crisis was greatly increase because her strength is now link magic to the Earth itself. Pre crisis her strenght was mental ability the allow her greatly increase her strenght (per wikipedi) but nowhere close to what she can do now.
Powers (DC list of her powers now)
Superhuman Strength: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of the Earth). Diana is literally as strong as the Earth because of her link to the planet granted to her by Demeter. She is quite possibly capable of lifting anything on earth. It is obvious her strength is magical in nature, given her height and weight. According to the secret files, Wonder Womans’ strength is second only to beings such as Superman or Captain Marvel. She has godlike strength and also invulnerability due to her aegis-made shield magic bracelets. With her superhuman strength and superior fighting abilities, she has proven to be a match for any of them at one time or another. During the War of the Gods, she was forced to fight and defeated Captain Marvel although. Later she needed and took out the six other members of the Justice League, in Justice League; League of One. This was done in order to save their lives as well as the entire planet. She over-powered and subdued Supergirl with relative ease more so than expected, when it was neccessary in Superman/Batman #10. She is strong enough to lift well over 100 tons with ease.
Darryl, what’s the point of answering your question when I never said Hulk or Thor could only lift 100 tons? Or that I already said characters like Thing, who aren’t as strong as Thor or a mad Hulk, have lifted at least a few thousand tons before?
And it took you going to Wikipedia to see I was right about Wonder Woman’s strength despite giving NUMEROUS examples?
What about your claim, originally, that Superman could only lift 300 tons? Or your claim that most of the examples I gave would require 300 tons max when only a couple of examples could be argued that way and one of them was a massively weakened Superman?
And what about you ignoring me pointing-out how Superman and Thor stack-up against each other or that being more powerful doesn’t mean going to win the majority? Wolverine isn’t as powerful as, say, U.S. Agent, but I don’t see U.S. Agent winning a majority over Wolverine.
And what about my pointing-out how Superman and Thor stack-up against each other? Or my examples of being more powerful doesn’t mean winning the majority?
I’m pointing-out how fucking stupid you are. Superman doesn’t have an overwhelming advantage over Thor? His speed advantage isn’t a big deal? Do you know how much fucking faster Superman is than Thor? You really are a true idiot. My arguments aren’t weak, you’re just really stupid.
Really, you truly are. Superman’s used his speed to overwhelm foes faster than Thor in combat speed and reflexes. He’s blocked/deflected multiple radiation beams so fast it seemed simultaneous, so he was Speed-Blitz-style blocking multiple light beams.
Not to mention Superman’s got the strength and durability advantages, and most of Thor’s abilities that make him more powerful than Superman have little to no use against Superman.
Oh and what about your failure to even argue Flash isn’t more powerful than Hulk? I gave you numerous reasons, the only quarter-way legitimate argument you gave was saying that no bio you could see shown Flash’s Infinite Mass Punch ability. I gave you examples of Flash using it, and showed how poorly bios often are in regards to the characters’ abilities. Hell, Superman’s official bio on DC’s website doesn’t even mention Superman’s speed!! Even Wikipedia is often better in finding-out a character’s powers and their levels than official bios are, and Wikipedia entries aren’t perfect. Superman’s entry doesn’t mention many of his more miscellaneous abilities and is wrong that early Post-CRISIS Superman was barely surviving nukes.
Not necessarily. Just because I disagree with Delta doesn’t mean I have to agree with Darryl. That’s kind of like saying if you’re not for me you’re against me, and I’ve never been a fan of that. It just so happens that I think that Hulk “could” beat flash,and so does Darryl. It’s only coincidence that we both think that,not to mention that Darryl is a pretty big Hulk fan(atleast from what I’ve seen from some of his posts). Also there were two things that were childish about Delta’s arguments, and I have pointed those out to him before. However his main points are what make his arguments right. He backs it up with “factual” evidence to support why he thinks what he thinks. Meaning he shows in the comic book world certain feats of characters that would make his claim more legitimate than his opponent. That is why I agreed with him more often. If you go back and look at some earlier posts you will see where I did disagree more with Delta. Also pardon my saying so but your typing style is much like Darryl’s. The missed words here and there, as well as the misuse of certain words makes me think that you possible could be Darryl only under a different screen name. I could be wrong but Darryl is one in a million when it comes to his “grammar”.
Does anybody else see the similarities in their writing styles? Either he got one of his friends that also can’t speak or type proper english, or that is him like I said only under a different screen name. I mean I know I’m not always grammatically perfect but atleast I do try. I mean I go back and proofread everything before I post, I do occasionally miss somethings, and sometimes the things I post are grammatically wrong but they seemed right to my knowledge. I’m pretty sure I’m right about that being Darryl though.
First Sammy I don’t need anybody to defend me 2nd I don’t have any need to write under different name. 3rd I’m Eagle fan not Steeler fan. I assume this guy is a Steeler because of his name. If did some research you would realize philly & pittsburgh are interstate rivals. It’s like calling a yankees fan a Met. I didn’t know you were a writing specialist. To me it seems you and Delta could be one in same person. Your writing style are alike and it does appear you agree with most thing Delta says.
Basically if you have a problem with what that guy wrote keep your argue between him and you.
I personally didn’t see anymore reason to go any further with Delta so that why haven’t respond to his childish comments because like say before he act like be kid whenever somebody disagrees with him. This will probably be another one of those cases but I have better things to do with my time.
Believe it or not I did know they were “interstate rivals.” But that still doesn’t make my opinion differ in any way. Also I never claimed to be a writing specialist. For another thing I took up for you when Delta starting pulling you as a person into the debate instead of just letting it be the characters. I agree that some of the things that Delta says can be “childish” and uncalled for. However, his main points are very hard for you to refute. That seems to be the reason you avoid most them, and pull out only a single example that could be “controversial” at best or based in opinion instead of fact. As for the whole writing style being similar, well the only reason for that is because both of us type complete sentences, and for the most part try to be grammitcally correct. Go back and look at what “Steelerfan” wrote, and then read back to yourself some of the things you have written. They are basically the same in the fact that they are both full of errors, mostly in the same places.
Look Steelerman, if you actually think I’m wrong, how about you try to refute and counter the points I bring across? Sammy’s right, I at least back-up my opinions with examples from the comics.
Bitch and whine and cry all you want about my insulting people and being immature. But you just prove your stupidity if you let that blind the “facts” I back-up my opinions with. So until you actually give arguments and can back up why you think I’m wrong with examples from the comics, I will think you’re just an idiot. I dare you to prove other-wise.
You should listen to Sammy. I point-out your stupidity due to the fact that it’s more amusing. Even before I ever insulted you, you almost never made arguments, and even more rarely used examples from the comics to back-up your opinion, just said you disagreed. You’ve never given a concrete reason as-to why you think what you do. You just can’t counter or refute anything I’ve given, can you? Just be a man and admit it.
And are you still going to stand-by your claims that I’m stupid for saying the bio information is bad to use? Or are you going to say Wolverine’s about as strong as Thor, can travel at lightspeed or faster, is virtually indestructible, is a greater genius than Mister Fantastic, and has comparable energy manipulation powers to Thor?
The real reason you’re not responding is because you have nothing to fall back on but trying to discredit me for being immature.
There are other examples of Marvel not posting things correctly. For example Blade is a 7 out 7 in strength, speed, durability, and fighting ability. He is also a 3 out of 7 in the energy projection, as far as I know the only thing he “projects” would be his numerous types of weapons, which shouldn’t really count. Anyway, about the rest of his 7 out 7 ratings he is basically just a “vampire”,and he wasn’t even that until being bitten by Morbius. According to other vampire based characters of Marvel he should only be about 5 out of 7 to 6 out of 7 at the most in all those categories except for maybe the fighting skills category. There are other numerous examples of mistakes. It kind of makes it hard to really trust the account of “Marvel” bios especially when they weren’t really written by Marvel but by fans that have Marvel accounts. I know this because I have a Marvel account, and like with most any other “wiki” based information it can be changed by anyone, or in this case anyone with an account. In other words even though the comic book creators should, and do know more about the characters than anybody else they aren’t the ones posting these ratings so they can’t be trusted to the full extent. Atleast as far as Marvel goes.
But Sammy, on the powergrids for the different characters, there’s BOTH official AND fan-voted ratings for the characters. And it was Wolverine’s OFFICIAL ratings that gave him a 7 out of 7 in everything.
And as-to Marvel vampires, if the powergrid’s similar to the 1-7 rating system for the 1993 and 1994 cards, a really powerful vampire should get a 5 out of 7. Most would be 3 out of 7, with some powerful ones being 4 out of 7. Not sure how I’d rate them on durability though, based on the old MARVEL UNIVERSE trading cards.
Samething with Blades ratings it was both fan based and official ratings. However even the official ratings are fan voted which doesn’t make sense to me at all. Marvel doesn’t control the ratings themselves it is left up to the fans. Nightmare_baby is the main contributor for most of the characters.
I have a question though Delta I looked at some of what you had to say on the Thor vs Superman topic and I was a little disturbed at some of it. I’ve told you before you have excellent examples and back up your claims very well, but do you honestly think that Supes could beat Thor? Not in a save the day kind of way where Thor would be threatening Earth or anything but just in a regular fight. Do you really think that Superman would win?
Wait……how is it the fan votes make the official ratings? If that’s the case, why do they even bother having both fan voted and “official” ratings? That makes less sense than Wolverine being a Silver Surfer-level energy manipulator.
As to Superman VS Thor, yes, I do believe Superman would beat Thor. I’ve given the reasons before. If you bring-up the Odin Force thing, Thor barely has any left now. Used almost all of it to fix Mjolnir. And he rarely used it anyways.
I don’t really know why they bother with the official ratings.
Now onto the whole Thor vs Superman debate. Even if he only has a “little” left it is still more than enough to grant him the power to overcome Superman. I’ll admit that Superman is a badass in his own right, but there is no way he could beat Thor not now anyway. I mean this is only a “what if” thing anyway, but still it’s a bit delusional to think that Superman, even given all he has done, could actually beat Thor. I know you’ll have 50 billion examples on why you think Superman would win based on what he’s done, but he hasn’t done anything near what Thor can do with the Odinforce, like I said before, even with the “little” he has left. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but this is one thing we are going to have to agree to disagree on.
Like I said we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I’m not getting into ok. This is not me conceding this is me saying I’m not going to argue with you. Conceding would mean I had no more argument to give, that isn’t the case. However I don’t want to get into it with you like Darryl has because I know what happened last time, and quite frankly I don’t want it to get to that point. We have been civil with each other and I would like to keep it that way. This in no way entitles you to joke my mom or me just because I won’t argue with you anymore. It has proven futile in the past so what’s the point. I have my opinion, and you have yours. You think that Superman would win, and I think Thor would win let’s leave it at that.
Judas…..
Seldon actually showed to know something for once, even though he got it from Wikipedia. Though he didn’t include everything.
Black Bolt can channel his electron manipulation to boost his strength to above Rogue, in addition to the “Master Blow” which is much higher than normal strength levels. He can also manipulate electrons to create force-fields and crude constructs. And his matter manipulation, through electron manipulation, has allowed him to do things like turning matter into anti-matter, as well as containing them in force fields. He also once defeated Hulk by manipulating Hulk’s electrons so Hulk attracted every single potential lightning bolt in the area, and was KOed. Though I’m also pretty sure that Black Bolt has taken-out Hulk a couple other times, with his “voice.” Once was the Seldon mentioned, another was he actually scanned Hulk’s structure and fine-tuned it specifically for the Hulk to take, but I could be confusing that with a fight with Gladiator.
Also to clarify, originally it wasn’t his “voice” that was the power. The attack is actually electrons manipulated in an attack, in the most potent, powerful way he has. The speech area of his brain is what controls it, so that’s why whenever he speaks he uses it. Some writers have made it partially sonic in nature, but the original intent had no actually sound for the attack.
And onto Green Lantern, here’s some stuff the Kyle Rayner has done. Contained nuclear explosions, contained a supernova, protected him and his New Corps. from a lightyear-wide cosmic storm that was destroying moons and planets, lifted a city into orbit, KOed white Martians, created a construct that held the “weight of eternity” in place, was one of the three to tow the Moon so fast through Earth’s gravity that it caught fire around the atmosphere and then towed it back to it’s proper orbit in seconds so he helped tow I think over 80 million tons of mass at about half of light speed, recreated Pluto, used the Power Ring for various enhanced or extra senses, created constructs that mimic the powers of others(Flash like speed and Speed Force manipulation, Superman-level strength, ect.), he’s been shown capable of creating black holes and causing supernovas, healed himself with it, and more.
So what do you think of Green Lantern now?
Seldon Seldon Seldon…..
I’m not picking and choosing what crossovers are cannon and what aren’t. For example, DC VERSUS MARVEL and JLA/AVENGERS both had titles from the regular line-ups that tied in those crossovers to make them cannon.
JLA VERSUS PREDATOR, SUPERMAN VERSUS PREDATOR and BATMAN VERSUS PREDATOR, as well as other titles like JLA/WITCHBLADE, don’t have anything specifically saying they’re not in continuity. Though there is a mention in JLA VERSUS PREDATOR that states even if they’re not cannon with the main-stream DCU, they’re in their own little mini-continuity.
Now there’s a BATMAN/DAREDEVIL Graphic Novel that actually states it’s an ELSEWORLDS. The Batman/Captain America crossover where Batman and Captain America switch sidekicks in World War Two obviously couldn’t be in continuity since current continuity has Batman and Dick Grayson be way too young to have served in WWII even if there wasn’t the little fact that it had ELSEWORLDS on it. The Batman/Spawn crossover that’s set in the DARK KNIGHT RETURNS era doesn’t have ELSEWORLDS on it, but specifically says it’s not in continuity.
So I’m not picking and choosing, since some have regular titles putting the crossovers into continuity, some don’t to my knowledge but have nothing saying they’re not so they may or may not be cannon, and others out-right state they’re not in continuity, with most of those being ELSEWORLDS.
So, once again, you should just shut the fuck up you dumbass bitch and actually learn a little so you don’t show yourself to be the blithering idiot you obviously are.
As to Darkseid being nowhere near as powerful as Odin, did you ignore the numerous examples I gave? You’ve failed before in your arguments to prove other-wise, and gave very poor examples if you even argued.
And Darryl, I’ve stated my reasons why some crossovers are cannon, some might be or might not be, and others are out-right stated to not be.
And I’ve stated my reasons why Darkseid is in Odin’s league, so you should actually give a reason instead of just saying he’s not.
Oh Seldon, also would love to know your answer to this.
Why is it that when I pointed-out numerous examples of Superman beating characters in the Skyfather-level and higher, like Entities beyond Galactus, you only argue on Darkseid? I mean do you even know about any of the other characters I mentioned, or are you just ignoring them and hope you can look good by arguing against Darkseid, when I’ve given better reasons for my argument than you gave for your’s?
Are you just that stupid to think I won’t notice you ignoring all my other examples? I at least try to respond to all of your points. I’m not perfect so I could miss some. But I still do a far better job than you out-right excluding the other 10 examples just because you think you can win the one example you sorta kinda have a slight idea about.
In addition to the considerable military forces at his command, Darkseid himself is quite formidable. His main power is the Omega Beam or Omega Effect, which is fired from his eyes. The Omega Effect is not only a powerful attack, but can teleport the target anywhere Darkseid chooses, erase the target from existence instantly and can then restore the target if he chooses. The Omega Effect is not limited to traveling in straight lines, able to bend or twist as needed. It can traverse time and different universes, and go through some barriers such as Orion’s body.
Darkseid also possesses strength, speed, and stamina rivalling that of Superman. He has overpowered the demon Etrigan, and Lobo hurt his hand by punching Darkseid’s face.
Darkseid has the ability to transmute matter. He turned Ol-Vir, a Daxamite, into dust, soap into dirt, and Slo-bo into a statue. He can teleport. He also has mind control greater than that of Sleez. According to Orion, he can travel through time as easily as any god. He can create life, as he did when he created Stayne. This comes supermansupersite.com.
Now onto Odin. While this is just a few examples of the Odin force it is Odin at his most powerful.Odinforce: Odin was capable of manipulating vast amounts of magical energy, referred to as the Odin Power, or the Odin Force, for a number of purposes. With this power, Odin was capable of feats such as transporting the entire human race to an alternate dimension, [5] casting foes into deep space with a thought[6], projecting force blasts[7], erecting highly durable force fields [8] altering size [9], endowing people or objects with powers [10], and compressing the population of an entire planet into a single being, namely Mangog.[11] Odin was highly skilled in the use of his powers during combat situations, and was able to casually knock around the Silver Surfer and Thanos simultaneously[12] and even put the Silver Surfer down in one simple blast when he got annoyed as he kept asking them to stand down but they kept attacking to no avail, as they’re attacks could not even phase Odin. He has taken away a soul from the demonic entity Mephisto [13]; Odin’s power is also said to surpass Mephisto’s, as Dormammu was considered the former demon’s superior and claimed his own magic rivaled that of Odin’s and Zeus’s. Odin’s full power is thus considered equal to that of Zeus, Dormammu, and most every other deity of Earth not of the Elder Gods, such as Vishnu, as well as Agamotto, as Dormammu held his own against both Oshtur’s son and his disciple beyond his native dimension. Odin’s power was so vast, that when a part of Odin, his dark side called Infinity went rogue, it was so large that it could crush planets in its grip as if they were pebbles, his mere limbs stretched as far as galaxies, Infinity was tearing away at the very fabric of the Universe, and if left unchecked would have ended all life and crushed the very Universe. Odin’s battle with Infinity destroyed entire galaxies and countless worlds. This comes from MarvelWikia. It was just faster for me to do it this way than it would have been for me to type it all in myself. Gotta love copy and paste.
Anyway, with this being said I would have to say based on Odin’s feats vs Darseid feats alone I would have to give the fight to Odin. Although in certain circumstances I’m sure that Darkseid would defeat Odin. But overall I would have to give the fight to Odin. Just my opinion on this, and ya know what they say opinions are like assholes everybody’s got one.
So, Seldon, I’ll give a few more examples as well as reiterating examples you ignore.
But first, since you made such a big deal out of claiming that Thanos was going to beat Darkseid if they were allowed to fight and made the point that Silver Surfer’s beaten Thanos and Silver Surfer’s nowhere near Galactus, I’ll reiterate what I’ve said and go into a bit more.
Not only did a combined blast from Storm and Silver Surfer do nothing to Darkseid, but he also took-down Thor rather easily with a single blast of Omega Beams. Thor’s beaten Silver Surfer AND Galactus, and did a lot better against Zeus than he did agianst Darkseid.
By comparison, Thanos had been hurt by Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. Though the Captain Marvel/Wonder Woman/Green Lantern team didn’t take-down Thanos either, they were more effective against Thanos than the Thor/Silver Surfer/Storm team were against Darkseid.
I mentioned before that Darkseid was actually able to hurt The Spectre. Spectre had to use his full measure of might to get through the energy that Darkseid was using, and when he “killed” Darkseid with a massive energy blast, Darkseid quickly reformed and said he was too important to the Universe to die.
DC’s Odin had stated that Darkseid had power beyond his ability to comprehend. While it being DC Odin doesn’t mean it’s automatically the same as Marvel’s Odin, the DC Odin was powerful enough to create his own universe. And DC’s Odin was actually referring to not just himself, but other Skyfathers, in regards to being unable to comprehend Darkseid’s power.
Not sure if GREAT DARKNESS SAGA was retconned or not, but in that, he easily defeated and absorbed the power of Mordru, who was at least as powerful as the entire Legion Of Super-Heroes which included Pre-CRISIS Kryptonians and a Pre-CRISIS Mon-El. That’s at the least approaching Skyfather-level.
When Kalibak was charged with only a fraction of Darkseid’s power, he beat Orion to death. Orion was only saved by Valkyra sacrificing herself to Black Racer to save Orion.
When Darkseid was linked in power to Doctor Fate, Orion, Highfather and Etrigan, he accidentally destroyed an entire alternate universe with a casual blast when trying to hit the Anti-Life Entity, which was stated to be omnipotent. I’d say even contributing to 20% of destroying an entire universe would put him on the level of Odin, but Darkseid very well could’ve contributed more since he was shown as more powerful than Orion.
And onto you saying Orion’s only a top-tier at best, not only did Orion contribute to a casual energy blast that destroyed an entire universe, but he was able to match and contain a bomb that was going to destroy the Universe. While his Astro-Force’s nature being part of his ability to do this, it’s countered by the fact that Orion was weak when he did this.
Now back to Darkseid. He was a big contributor to piercing the armor of Imperiex Prime, an Entity that actually consumed entire galaxies, and was going to destroy the Universe. This was also done through Superman being amped by absorbing an energy being who’s core was a reality manipulator and 30 B13-enhanced hydrogen bombs. Still though considering Imperiex Prime was one who devoured entire galaxies and with a few exceptions it took entire TEAMS to take-down ONE of his far far far far far inferior Probes, this is quite a feat.
When he was recharged he was going to destroy the Warworld enhanced by those Imperiex Prime energies AND being connected to Apokolips, but then they realized if he did that, it’d just release Imperiex again.
So, I’d say it’s fair to say Darkseid is in the same league as Odin. Plus, this is the ONLY one I mentioned that you’re capable of arguing to any extent. You ignored the other 10 or so examples I gave to back my point.
Sammy…..
I think what other people arguing against me(not including you, since you just seemed to be pointing stuff out) fail to see is I never said Darkseid was more powerful. But showing he’s in the same league.
Basically this came about because I said if Superman had to save the day, he could beat Odin. Not in a straight-up brawl, but he could find some way to. And I gave numerous examples of Superman beating characters in Odin’s league and also Entities beyond Odin. Yet Seldon ignored the other 10 examples I gave and only focused on Darkseid.
He’s also been ignoring most of my examples and simply gave his own, when I at least respond to most, if not all, of his arguments. So the only reiterating I’m doing is points he didn’t even fucking acknowledge by and large.
I think the reason people ignore the most part of an argument and focus on one aspect alone is because it is much easier for them to rebut one example than it would be for them to rebut all of the examples you gave. And of course if it meant saving the day he would find a way, but I think that has more to do with the writing process and him being such an icon than it does about his actual power. I mean Odin could just think him to anywhere he wanted him to be and make it nearly impossible for him to get back and save the day, no matter how fast he can fly. See what I’m saying?
Yeah Odin could do that. Didn’t seem him do it to Silver Surfer, Doctor Strange and the Infinity Watch though and just put them in another dimension and have Thor be released from his imprisonment, instead of KOing Surfer pretty quick and then smacking around Thanos like he was a pimp punishing his ho holding money back on him.
Guess Superman’s not the only one guilty of not using his powers to the fullest!!
And you’re probably right that it’s easier for people to just focus on the one example they want to. Of course I don’t think Seldon even could argue the other examples I gave. I get a little annoyed that he says I reiterate “disproven” points when he normally ignores my points and gives his own examples. I at least acknowledge his points.
And then he just tries to say I only know about Superman like my points he can’t counter are invalid. Guess though that for me to ONLY know about Superman, I’d have to only read the comics that show him flying fast, lifting heavy stuff, and using his powers in non-combat ways, since any fight he has would “force” me to learn about the character he’s fighting.
Delta say
Why is it that when I pointed-out numerous examples of Superman beating characters in the Skyfather-level and higher, like Entities beyond Galactus, you only argue on Darkseid?
Sammy Answer
think the reason people ignore the most part of an argument and focus on one aspect alone is because it is much easier for them to rebut one example than it would be for them to rebut all of the examples you gave.
I agree with Sammy answer. I know Delta you have belitte Dr. Strange but he has defeat numerous high level entities but when anybody mention that to you quickly discards those facts state has been beaten by ninjas before. Superman not much different for all his feats Lex Luthor a human with no power has defeat superman and have come close to killing superman on multi-ocassions.
Darryl, I said you were an idiot because you tried to make a case that Superman’s speed is nothing to Doctor Strange. You failed so damn hard.
You gave no evidence whatsoever that Doctor Strange could deal with a full-on speed-blitz from Superman. Maybe you should actually have paid attention to what you said.
But you’re also the same guy who was stupid and ignorant enough to think Wonder Woman lifting over 500 tons was ridiculous, that Superman’s limit was 300 tons max, and never conceded to being wrong despite being given far too much proof to the contrary. Aquaman’s capable of lifting far more than 500 tons, and I’ve got the proof.
I also said if one were to argue that Doctor Strange is more powerful than Superman, his powers being magick based is the worst argument you can give. Does that mean Wrecker is more powerful than Superman?
Oh, and Darryl, I actually don’t know of any examples of Lex Luthor beating Superman in the sense of a one-on-one fight post-CRISIS. He’s “beaten” Superman in the sense of covering his ass so he can’t get into legal trouble on many occasions, but that’s nothing compared to you claiming Superman has no chance of beating Doctor Strange with a speed-blitz yet he’s been taken down by cannon-fodder Ninjas.
Really, if it weren’t for Superman’s morals, there’d be almost nothing Luthor could do to stop Superman from killing him. One time Superman had Luthor in his hands and was seriously considering killing Lex, there wasn’t anything he could do.
Well Darryl, will you even admit to being wrong on your strength limits for Wonder Woman and Superman? More than enough examples have obliterated your claims, which you didn’t even have anything to back-up. I guess you’re not man enough to admit when you’re wrong, and this isn’t even about opinion.
Delta you have fail so hard trying defend your opinions that you have been reduce to insulting other people for their opinions.
I don’t even get mad when you try your silly attempts to insult me because just let’s me know don’t have no real answers.
Why don’t you just admit base off his powers and feats Dr.Strange would have good shot at beating Superman but in opinion think superman might be able to overpower as fight when on. I could understand argument like that better, it would make more sense. Insteading try act like Dr. Strange would be beaten by superman moving at super speeds when you know Dr. Strange beaten enitities capable of attacking at speeds out thought.
Superman has long history doesn’t start at post crisis so my comment about Lex & superman are right.
Just you making another poor arugment.
Wow Darryl, you really are a stupid stupid idiot.
You just can’t admit you’re wrong about your claim Wonder Woman’s limit was lifting 150 tons and Superman’s limit being 300 tons? Or are you so stupid you still think that’s the case?
I’m not insulting you because I have no arguments left, I’m insulting you because you really are a dumb fuck who doesn’t know shit about what he’s saying. You’re ignoring being proven to be out-right wrong and ignoring that my statements do hold water.
You failed to prove that the Entities you brought-up show Doctor Strange being able to handle Superman’s speed. You showed teleportation. What does that mean? It’s not the same as combat speed. Superman can in fact hit Doctor Strange perhaps billions of times before Strange could really react. There’s a huge difference between someone being able to move from point-a to point-b before Strange can react, then attack at normal speed, and moving from point-a to point-b and then attack Strange a minimum of dozens of times, but really thousands of times, before Strange could react. And with someone as strong as Superman, one hit would be all that’s needed.
And my argument about Doctor Strange was originally about if you want to say Doctor Strange is more powerful than Superman, don’t say because his powers are mystical is the reason. Using actual feats Strange has done is one thing, but exploiting a weakness doesn’t mean shit. Strange’s normal human speed and durability make him far more vulnerable to Superman’s blitzing than Strange’s powers being mystical in nature.
So say my “attempts” are silly all you want. They’re more observations than insults. You not being offended doesn’t change the validity that you don’t know what the fuck you’re talking about.
Or do you still stand-by your claim that Superman can only lift 300 tons?
Oh and unless you’re talking about Pre-CRISIS Superman, then post-CRISIS is indeed the start of Superman’s encounters with Lex Luthor. They fucking threw-out almost everything regarding Superman’s history and started-over after CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS.
So I’m making a poor argument when you’re wrong just on the basis of not knowing continuity?
And Darryl, I’m still waiting for your response on what makes you think Superman can only lift 300 tons, if that’s still the case.
Or why you claimed most of the examples I gave would require a maximum strength of 300 tons when I gave examples of Superman THROWING into orbit something four times the size of a ship that weighs nearly 100,000 tons. Or two examples of Superman lifting subs that weight well over 20,000 tons. Or Superman casually lifting a mountain, which weighs a whole lot more than 300 tons. Or Superman lifting a weight a good deal over 300 tons while extremely weak and concussed.
Only a couple examples I gave were questionable to require a max of 300 tons, at best for your argument. The vast majority would require well over 300 tons easily, and every example most likely required more than 300 tons.
But you’re not going to answer this, are you?
I will answer your question very easily I NEVER say Superman couldn’t lift over 300 tons. Matter-fact I told you his strenght limit was around 12 million tons even though you didn’t agree with that. I also believe I say if ton system was to apply to superman he would be in 300 ton level. Which is credit too Superman since Marvel stop at 100 ton with their characters. The big different is when start talking about Superman/Thor/Hulk your talking about heroes who normal measure of strenght real don’t apply. Do you think that 100 ton class Marvel mention is all Thor and Hulk can lift?
Darryl, you did indeed say Superman could only lift 300 tons max. This was after me asking if you thought Superman couldn’t lift much more than 500 tons due to your saying that Wonder Woman lifting over 500 tons was ridiculous. And you said it was Pre-CRISIS Superman who’s limit was 12 million tons, which was wrong too, even if his powers were halved. But opps you weren’t right about that either, they were reduced by a third and that lasted less than a year.
Until I brought-up the WHO’S WHO? entry on Superman you were saying Superman’s limit was 300 tons. Then you said his max was 6 million tons. This was his official limit, which probably wasn’t even followed, just post-CRISIS. Superman has grown far more powerful since.
You also said Wonder Woman could only lift 150 tons. And said you “didn’t buy it” when shown proof to the contrary.
So now you’re backtracking and saying you never said Superman can only lift 300 tons? That’s worse than your alleged I only having insulting you left. When I really am just throwing in observations between my arguments which more often than not have examples to back them up. You had no examples to back-up your claims of Wonder Woman being limited to 150 tons and Superman to 300 tons.
Actually Lex Luthor HAS almost killed superman a number of times, so you’re flat out wrong there, Delta. His point being that normal people have almost killed superman. But you can’t even accept that someone can ALMOST beat superman, nevermind that they actually did beat him. You live in a fantasy world. You seriously are like Al-Jeezera. And the reason people attack your weak arguments is because they are so stupid, its unbeliebvable that someone would even make half of them. Picking and choosing which crossovers are in continuity is just plain stupid. You take the ones that back up your claim that Superman is GOD as canon, and the ones that have weaker showings are not. Of course you have rationalizations why each one is canon or not, but I think everyone here on this site knows why you think certain ones are canon. You’re not fooling anyone.
Tell Delta, if Thor and Superman fought, would Superman invariably win every single fight?
Ten fights, how many does Thor win?
Seldon don’t expect Delta to give you an honest answer. But use Delta own words that acknowledge Thor is more powerful then Superman the answer should be Thor would win a least 6 to 7 times out of 10.
Seldon, you’re so fucking stupid.
Why am I not surprised you completely dodged the question as-to why you ONLY focus on the Darkseid example I gave? You don’t even know much about Darkseid, do you? And you can’t argue the other examples, can you? So why don’t you acknowledge them? Well most likely your ignorance would cause you to look closer to how stupid you really are.
Yeah, my arguments are weak. That’s why you ignore the majority of them. If they were so weak, you’d at least acknowledge them. But you don’t, because you can’t counter them.
I’m going to keep laughing at your calling the the Al Jezera of Superman. Considering that’s almost all you’re really doing you have nothing to fall back on. I at least give examples and counter arguments when I insult them, so I obviously don’t have only them to fall back on.
And it’s still pretty pathetic that you’re saying I’m picking and choosing what crossovers are canon and what aren’t. You just ignore my examples because it obliterates your pathetic attempt to discredit me. I’m so much smarter than you, and you just don’t want to acknowledge it, bitch.
And Darryl, fucking respond to my earlier posts to you. Why didn’t you? Is it because it proves you wrong and me right?
And how fucking stupid are you to say what I said means Thor would win at least 6 or 7 times out of 10? Tell me, if being more powerful meant you’re going to win the majority, then how the fuck did Thor beat Galactus despite that big a gap in power?
The way Superman and Thor stack-up against each other means Superman wins the majority. Many of the abilities that I think makes Thor more POWERFUL would have little to no use against Superman. But Superman’s speed will be far more devastating than several of those powers Thor has.
For example, say Guy A and Guy B have the same level of strength and durability, but Guy A also has vastly powerful senses. So Guy A is more powerful, but do you think that’s often going to make a difference in the fight? Once again Darryl, you justify my pointing-out that you’re stupid.
Oh and Seldon, I thought I’d once again show everyone a picture of who you really are.
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8671/wimplo.jpg
Funny Delta you never answer the question if you think Hulk and Thor can only can lift 100 tons?
And the answer to your Wonder Woman question is pre-crisis what I say about her is correct post crisis want you say is correct.
Her powers post crisis was greatly increase because her strength is now link magic to the Earth itself. Pre crisis her strenght was mental ability the allow her greatly increase her strenght (per wikipedi) but nowhere close to what she can do now.
Powers (DC list of her powers now)
Superhuman Strength: Granted by Demeter (Goddess of the Earth). Diana is literally as strong as the Earth because of her link to the planet granted to her by Demeter. She is quite possibly capable of lifting anything on earth. It is obvious her strength is magical in nature, given her height and weight. According to the secret files, Wonder Womans’ strength is second only to beings such as Superman or Captain Marvel. She has godlike strength and also invulnerability due to her aegis-made shield magic bracelets. With her superhuman strength and superior fighting abilities, she has proven to be a match for any of them at one time or another. During the War of the Gods, she was forced to fight and defeated Captain Marvel although. Later she needed and took out the six other members of the Justice League, in Justice League; League of One. This was done in order to save their lives as well as the entire planet. She over-powered and subdued Supergirl with relative ease more so than expected, when it was neccessary in Superman/Batman #10. She is strong enough to lift well over 100 tons with ease.
Darryl, what’s the point of answering your question when I never said Hulk or Thor could only lift 100 tons? Or that I already said characters like Thing, who aren’t as strong as Thor or a mad Hulk, have lifted at least a few thousand tons before?
And it took you going to Wikipedia to see I was right about Wonder Woman’s strength despite giving NUMEROUS examples?
What about your claim, originally, that Superman could only lift 300 tons? Or your claim that most of the examples I gave would require 300 tons max when only a couple of examples could be argued that way and one of them was a massively weakened Superman?
And what about you ignoring me pointing-out how Superman and Thor stack-up against each other or that being more powerful doesn’t mean going to win the majority? Wolverine isn’t as powerful as, say, U.S. Agent, but I don’t see U.S. Agent winning a majority over Wolverine.
Delta you should notice how use 100 tons is use just as guideline not as a limit.
You weren’t acting like that when I was giving straight-up examples with tonnage use.
And what about my pointing-out how Superman and Thor stack-up against each other? Or my examples of being more powerful doesn’t mean winning the majority?
Try to insult me again show how weak your argument is.
Your Superman vs Thor explanation don’t hold up because Superman don’t have any overwhelming advantage over Thor.
I’m pointing-out how fucking stupid you are. Superman doesn’t have an overwhelming advantage over Thor? His speed advantage isn’t a big deal? Do you know how much fucking faster Superman is than Thor? You really are a true idiot. My arguments aren’t weak, you’re just really stupid.
Really, you truly are. Superman’s used his speed to overwhelm foes faster than Thor in combat speed and reflexes. He’s blocked/deflected multiple radiation beams so fast it seemed simultaneous, so he was Speed-Blitz-style blocking multiple light beams.
Not to mention Superman’s got the strength and durability advantages, and most of Thor’s abilities that make him more powerful than Superman have little to no use against Superman.
Oh and what about your failure to even argue Flash isn’t more powerful than Hulk? I gave you numerous reasons, the only quarter-way legitimate argument you gave was saying that no bio you could see shown Flash’s Infinite Mass Punch ability. I gave you examples of Flash using it, and showed how poorly bios often are in regards to the characters’ abilities. Hell, Superman’s official bio on DC’s website doesn’t even mention Superman’s speed!! Even Wikipedia is often better in finding-out a character’s powers and their levels than official bios are, and Wikipedia entries aren’t perfect. Superman’s entry doesn’t mention many of his more miscellaneous abilities and is wrong that early Post-CRISIS Superman was barely surviving nukes.
Steelerman,
Not necessarily. Just because I disagree with Delta doesn’t mean I have to agree with Darryl. That’s kind of like saying if you’re not for me you’re against me, and I’ve never been a fan of that. It just so happens that I think that Hulk “could” beat flash,and so does Darryl. It’s only coincidence that we both think that,not to mention that Darryl is a pretty big Hulk fan(atleast from what I’ve seen from some of his posts). Also there were two things that were childish about Delta’s arguments, and I have pointed those out to him before. However his main points are what make his arguments right. He backs it up with “factual” evidence to support why he thinks what he thinks. Meaning he shows in the comic book world certain feats of characters that would make his claim more legitimate than his opponent. That is why I agreed with him more often. If you go back and look at some earlier posts you will see where I did disagree more with Delta. Also pardon my saying so but your typing style is much like Darryl’s. The missed words here and there, as well as the misuse of certain words makes me think that you possible could be Darryl only under a different screen name. I could be wrong but Darryl is one in a million when it comes to his “grammar”.
Does anybody else see the similarities in their writing styles? Either he got one of his friends that also can’t speak or type proper english, or that is him like I said only under a different screen name. I mean I know I’m not always grammatically perfect but atleast I do try. I mean I go back and proofread everything before I post, I do occasionally miss somethings, and sometimes the things I post are grammatically wrong but they seemed right to my knowledge. I’m pretty sure I’m right about that being Darryl though.
First Sammy I don’t need anybody to defend me 2nd I don’t have any need to write under different name. 3rd I’m Eagle fan not Steeler fan. I assume this guy is a Steeler because of his name. If did some research you would realize philly & pittsburgh are interstate rivals. It’s like calling a yankees fan a Met. I didn’t know you were a writing specialist. To me it seems you and Delta could be one in same person. Your writing style are alike and it does appear you agree with most thing Delta says.
Basically if you have a problem with what that guy wrote keep your argue between him and you.
I personally didn’t see anymore reason to go any further with Delta so that why haven’t respond to his childish comments because like say before he act like be kid whenever somebody disagrees with him. This will probably be another one of those cases but I have better things to do with my time.
Darryl,
Believe it or not I did know they were “interstate rivals.” But that still doesn’t make my opinion differ in any way. Also I never claimed to be a writing specialist. For another thing I took up for you when Delta starting pulling you as a person into the debate instead of just letting it be the characters. I agree that some of the things that Delta says can be “childish” and uncalled for. However, his main points are very hard for you to refute. That seems to be the reason you avoid most them, and pull out only a single example that could be “controversial” at best or based in opinion instead of fact. As for the whole writing style being similar, well the only reason for that is because both of us type complete sentences, and for the most part try to be grammitcally correct. Go back and look at what “Steelerfan” wrote, and then read back to yourself some of the things you have written. They are basically the same in the fact that they are both full of errors, mostly in the same places.
Also just so you know you don’t have to worry about me being “childish” about things with you. I will be rational as long as you are.
Look Steelerman, if you actually think I’m wrong, how about you try to refute and counter the points I bring across? Sammy’s right, I at least back-up my opinions with examples from the comics.
Bitch and whine and cry all you want about my insulting people and being immature. But you just prove your stupidity if you let that blind the “facts” I back-up my opinions with. So until you actually give arguments and can back up why you think I’m wrong with examples from the comics, I will think you’re just an idiot. I dare you to prove other-wise.
Darryl…..
You should listen to Sammy. I point-out your stupidity due to the fact that it’s more amusing. Even before I ever insulted you, you almost never made arguments, and even more rarely used examples from the comics to back-up your opinion, just said you disagreed. You’ve never given a concrete reason as-to why you think what you do. You just can’t counter or refute anything I’ve given, can you? Just be a man and admit it.
And are you still going to stand-by your claims that I’m stupid for saying the bio information is bad to use? Or are you going to say Wolverine’s about as strong as Thor, can travel at lightspeed or faster, is virtually indestructible, is a greater genius than Mister Fantastic, and has comparable energy manipulation powers to Thor?
The real reason you’re not responding is because you have nothing to fall back on but trying to discredit me for being immature.
There are other examples of Marvel not posting things correctly. For example Blade is a 7 out 7 in strength, speed, durability, and fighting ability. He is also a 3 out of 7 in the energy projection, as far as I know the only thing he “projects” would be his numerous types of weapons, which shouldn’t really count. Anyway, about the rest of his 7 out 7 ratings he is basically just a “vampire”,and he wasn’t even that until being bitten by Morbius. According to other vampire based characters of Marvel he should only be about 5 out of 7 to 6 out of 7 at the most in all those categories except for maybe the fighting skills category. There are other numerous examples of mistakes. It kind of makes it hard to really trust the account of “Marvel” bios especially when they weren’t really written by Marvel but by fans that have Marvel accounts. I know this because I have a Marvel account, and like with most any other “wiki” based information it can be changed by anyone, or in this case anyone with an account. In other words even though the comic book creators should, and do know more about the characters than anybody else they aren’t the ones posting these ratings so they can’t be trusted to the full extent. Atleast as far as Marvel goes.
But Sammy, on the powergrids for the different characters, there’s BOTH official AND fan-voted ratings for the characters. And it was Wolverine’s OFFICIAL ratings that gave him a 7 out of 7 in everything.
And as-to Marvel vampires, if the powergrid’s similar to the 1-7 rating system for the 1993 and 1994 cards, a really powerful vampire should get a 5 out of 7. Most would be 3 out of 7, with some powerful ones being 4 out of 7. Not sure how I’d rate them on durability though, based on the old MARVEL UNIVERSE trading cards.
Samething with Blades ratings it was both fan based and official ratings. However even the official ratings are fan voted which doesn’t make sense to me at all. Marvel doesn’t control the ratings themselves it is left up to the fans. Nightmare_baby is the main contributor for most of the characters.
I have a question though Delta I looked at some of what you had to say on the Thor vs Superman topic and I was a little disturbed at some of it. I’ve told you before you have excellent examples and back up your claims very well, but do you honestly think that Supes could beat Thor? Not in a save the day kind of way where Thor would be threatening Earth or anything but just in a regular fight. Do you really think that Superman would win?
Wait……how is it the fan votes make the official ratings? If that’s the case, why do they even bother having both fan voted and “official” ratings? That makes less sense than Wolverine being a Silver Surfer-level energy manipulator.
As to Superman VS Thor, yes, I do believe Superman would beat Thor. I’ve given the reasons before. If you bring-up the Odin Force thing, Thor barely has any left now. Used almost all of it to fix Mjolnir. And he rarely used it anyways.
I don’t really know why they bother with the official ratings.
Now onto the whole Thor vs Superman debate. Even if he only has a “little” left it is still more than enough to grant him the power to overcome Superman. I’ll admit that Superman is a badass in his own right, but there is no way he could beat Thor not now anyway. I mean this is only a “what if” thing anyway, but still it’s a bit delusional to think that Superman, even given all he has done, could actually beat Thor. I know you’ll have 50 billion examples on why you think Superman would win based on what he’s done, but he hasn’t done anything near what Thor can do with the Odinforce, like I said before, even with the “little” he has left. You are absolutely entitled to your own opinion but this is one thing we are going to have to agree to disagree on.
So, what has Thor done that’s so impressive with what little he has left of the Odin Force? And how often does he actually make use of it?
Like I said we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. I’m not getting into ok. This is not me conceding this is me saying I’m not going to argue with you. Conceding would mean I had no more argument to give, that isn’t the case. However I don’t want to get into it with you like Darryl has because I know what happened last time, and quite frankly I don’t want it to get to that point. We have been civil with each other and I would like to keep it that way. This in no way entitles you to joke my mom or me just because I won’t argue with you anymore. It has proven futile in the past so what’s the point. I have my opinion, and you have yours. You think that Superman would win, and I think Thor would win let’s leave it at that.
But, what has Thor done since losing most of the Odin Force that makes you think other-wise? And how often has he actually used it?
Those are valid questions.