The Mighty Thor and Superman are the heavy-hitters of Marvel and DC respectively, each of them arguably the most powerful hero in their respective universes. So its natural that this is without question the most discussed versus debate amongst comic book fans. No other versus battle comes close to being talked about as much than this one. Try to start a “Superman vs Thor” thread on any forum and the first response is sure to be: “Not this again”.
Some of you may remember our “Top 10 Most Powerful Superheroes” list that we released a while back, where we made the controversial claim that Thor was the most powerful superhero of all time (Superman coming in at number three on that list). Months later we are still receiving emails either agreeing with us, or flaming us for that decision. Many fans cite Superman’s speed as the deciding factor in any fight between the two behemoths. Other emails claim that Thor’s magical powers would be enough to stop the man of steel in his tracks. So, the natural question is, do we still stand by our claim that Thor is more powerful than Superman? The answer is still “yes.” In this article we’ll break down the seven most common arguments and give you our take on them.
1. Super Strength
The claim has often been made that Superman is stronger than Thor. Many times on versus forums threads this claim is accepted as a given by both sides of the debate. We don’t concede that the Man of Steel is physically stronger than the god of thunder though. Thor has performed feats such as lifting the World Serpent, and once hurled the Odinsword, an enormous mystical blade, through a Celestial! Thor has also single-handedly matched the strength of the Hulk on numerous occasions (the Marvel Universe’s strongest character). Not only that but Thor is capable of entering into a state known as the “Warrior’s Madness”, which will temporarily increase his strength tenfold. Some of these feats have no true equivalent in the DC universe. We think at the very least, the two character’s physical strength is equal.
2 . Super Speed
This is Superman’s one true advantage in this fight. Superman is fast. We’re talking warp speed fast. We’re talking once around the entire planet and back before you can blink fast. You could easily make the argument that Thor would be lucky if he even saw Superman before he got pounded. But is Thor as slow as everyone seems to think? Unknown to many DC fanboys Thor can throw his hammer at the speed of light (See Thor#140, Thor#274). He can also swing it at TWICE the speed of light (Journey Into Mystery#102). In Thor -#393- it’s established that the speed of Thor’s hammer TRANSCENDS both TIME & SPACE. In addition Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds (see- FF#339, and Thor#166). And, most importantly, Thor could, visually, detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire- see Invaders#33- and Avengers-#281- when he saw the speedy Hermes. And yes, I do need a life). Now if we accept that Superman can move at 99% of the speed of light, and that Thor can swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, it stands to reason that big blue is in some trouble. It’s true that Thor doesn’t use his super speed abilities often, but how many times have you seen Superman not use his super speed when he should have?
3. Stanima
Who can take more punishment, Thor or Superman? This is a difficult question. Thor has withstood a blast from Asgardian Destroyer. Superman has withstood a direct hit from a nuclear bomb. Thor has taken everything the Hulk could dish out. Thor also once took a glancing hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion he fell from space (leaving a crater miles wide) to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Thor has also taken everything that Gladiator (an arguably more powerful version of Superman) could dish out. Both characters have come back from the dead a couple of times. In my mind this one is a draw. Both characters have approximately the same stanima. The difference is Superman has weaknesses (i.e. Kryptonite, Magic, and the fact he is powerless without yellow sunlight) whereas Thor pretty much doesn’t.
4. Magic
Even the most diehard Superman fan would concede that Thor’s magical abilities would be an advantage for Thor. First, I would like to note that just because an opponent can wield magic, it in no way guarantees a win over the last son of Krypton. Superman has defeated countless magic users in the past, and so I have no illusions that just because Thor has magic powers and a magic hammer that he would automatically own Superman. That being said magic is just as lethal against Supes as kryptonite. Superman has no defense against it, and it can affect him greatly. Superman getting pounded by Mjolnir is the same as you and me getting pounded by a normal hammer. And consider the guy who’s swinging it. It’s Thor. The god of thunder. Not only that, but Thor’s lightning is magical too. Remember that just a single lightning bolt is equivalent to 15,000,000 volts of electricity and could travel over 224,000 miles an hour. The clear advantage here goes to Thor.
5. Super Powers
Before Thor inherited the Odinforce, the super powers of these two heroes were a little more even. Now there is absolutely no contest. Thor has a clear edge over Superman here. His magical hammer gives Thor the ability to control the weather, the ability to fly; energy projection and absorption; dimensional apertures; matter manipulation, as well as the most powerful of his offensive powers: the God Blast, and the Anti-Force. Superman is no push over in this department either, with the already mentioned super strength, super speed, as well as heat vision, x-ray vision, enhanced senses, and the ability to blow hurricane force winds from his mouth. But what is that compared to being able to summon an actual hurricane? Not only that but with the Odinforce Thor was then capable of feats such as reconstructing the Earth’s Moon, willing the Asgardian monster Mangog into nothingness, and by focusing his entire power into a hammer throw that even decapitated a Desak-occupied Asgardian Destroyer. Having accepted his heritage as the son of the earth goddess Gaea, he has recently been shown to be capable of opening chasms in the earth itself, and who knows what other abilities he’ll be displaying now that he’s done that.
6. Superman beat Thor in the Avengers / DC Crossover
I don’t want to spend much time on this one. Most fans of comics know how much weight we should give to crossovers. Besides, I personally have no doubt that Superman would beat Galactus in a crossover. He’s DC’s flagship character after all. Enough said on that one.
7. Thor has Thousands of Years of Combat Experience
This is a common argument used by Thor fans to claim that Thor would take down Superman. It seems fairly obvious. If I somehow gained super powers and a Viking Warrior somehow gained the exact same or nearly equivalent powers, most people would put their money on the Viking if we fought each other. Now imagine the Viking warrior was thousands of years older than me, and had been using his powers for all those thousands of years to battle trolls, giants, demons, robots, aliens, and gods, and I have only been using my powers for 20-30 years. It seems clear to me that the Viking Warrior god has a clear cut advantage over me in a fight. Again advantage Thor.
It seems obvious to me that Thor has a clear advantage over Superman in a fight. I don’t think that Thor is so powerful that there is no way that Superman could ever defeat him. But I believe that the majority of the time Thor would beat Superman in a one on one fight, assuming its not a fight to the death. If it is a fight to the death, then I think Thor would almost invariably win. So there you have it, the definitive answer to one of the most talked about and controversial debates in comic book nerdom. Brought to you by your pals at Old-Wizard.com.
Now it seem the party move here
First of all Superman vs Grundy #676
Depending on the incarnation of grundy He will be more or less powerful
The fight vs Superman lasted 4 pannels 4 OUT of the whole comic! Is that really a challenge?
Anyhow here is how the fight ended
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/4.jpg
Superman has to be dumbed down always in order for him to function in metropolis or earth.
He HOLDS BACK, BECAUSE HE IS A NICE GUY!
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/5.jpg
Magic was a factor?
I have seen better fights than that one. Magic is a plot device to make the story more interesting
This is Superman getting out of mystical magma on blazes realm
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/3.jpg
Does he seems burned?
This is Superman with a mystical sword in his heart from a god
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/Supermanvs3gods.jpg
Did He die?
This is Superman vs Vodoo magic
A needle in the brain could have killed anyone
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/2226ne.png
did Superman died?
This is Superman receiving mystical thunder from Poseidon
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/878qr.jpg
He survived this one too
Vs magical blast
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/MAGICAGAIN.jpg
vs magical spell
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/FIGHTMAGICAGAIN2.jpg
vs shazam’s thunder
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/SHAZAMTHUNDER2.jpg
vs magical being fighting the JLA and the Spectre
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/POISONEATINGMYSOUL.jpg
What was the result?
Weakened for a second and then up again
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/POISONEATINGMYSOUL2.jpg
the blas that defeated all the jla but superman
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Superman%20vsmagick/supermanvsancientmagic4.jpg
and so many more.
now onto breathing in space
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/FACTS/Dontneedtobreath-1.jpg
unconcious in space “breathing”
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/FACTS/sUPERMANDOESNOTNEEDTOBREATHINSPACE2.jpg
“screaming”
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/FACTS/OXYGEN.jpg
I Don’t get this one
Superman does not need to breath in sapace But Mogul Jr. taugth him HOW TO BREATH in space?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/FACTS/spacebreathing.jpg
That means now that besides that He does not need to breath in space now He can breath in space?
hey alberto…your asking why Superman doesnt need to breathe sometimes and sometimes he does…..or is being trained how to do it? Easy answer. The yellow sunlight gives Superman all he needs to survive. This is why after he fought Doomsday he died and then when is dead body was put into a kryptonian chamber…feeding him yellow sunlight it brought him back from death.
Superman gains more power from the sun…the sunlight is all he needs to survive…if he absorbed enough power he wont need to breathe. If he power is low he will need to eat, drink, breath, ect ect. Superman from time to time depowers himself because of his fear of becoming too powerful. I think that was a very interesting stories when they did that but it never hit the crowd.
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/FACTS/Dontneedtobreath2.jpg
Superman and draining his yellow energy
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SOURCES%20OF%20POWER/solarenergy.jpg
star light = sun light
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SOURCES%20OF%20POWER/supermanandstarlight.jpg
Draining someone with mitosis based powers
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SOURCES%20OF%20POWER/SUPERMANABSORBSENERGY.jpg
Leaching energy from preassure, heat and rocks
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SOURCES%20OF%20POWER/vskhyber5.jpg
Recharging with electricity
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SOURCES%20OF%20POWER/electricalcharge.jpg
I’m going to get a lot of heat for this one, but anyway. I’m just presenting the feat
Surviving at point blank range a 4D explosion capable of hurt Mageddon unfazed
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/DURABILITY/6.jpg
Remember Mageddon could be considered at the same tier as an elder god like:
Odin, Crom, King Thor, Yuga Khan, Arzaz, The Old Gods and Elder Gods
See, He is really close to Aztek
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/DURABILITY/7.jpg
And what happened to Superman?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/DURABILITY/8.jpg
mmm on a second thought forget about this feat of the 4d explosion. It seems the wapon was designed to defeat Mageddon, so is possible that the explosion was created ONLY to hurt Mageddon and nothing else.
Is kind of fishy
Disregard this last feat please
Nice feats.
Thanks Walter
You notice that I discarded even my feats?
The 4D explosion is one of them
The one in which He resist magic from Shazam could also be removed, because Superman was beign controlled by a magical being, so that might have helped him.
Actually I don’t even know why I posted that one with Shazam’s Thunder
Anyhow. Thanks for the compliment
Alberto : Eclipso takes the powers and the weaknesses of the host.
Alberto: The blast hurt Martian Manhunter though, so I think it should still be used as a feat.
@sh
Yes, I know, but the fact that eclipso is magical could been interpreted as amping. Because is Superman + Eclipso not
superman only
@fury
Which Blast THE 4D ONE?
i DON’T KNOW, You guys can discuss it. What I see from the 4d blast is mageddon Drones before the blast and mageddon drones after the blast. This is what convinved me that the blast effect was only designed to affect Mageddon.
The fact that the drones are in panels before and after explosions is what make me rethink my position in this feat.
It could also be argued that the Drones in the after explosion panel were created AFTER the explosion.
After all you can see the drones in the before and during the explosions panels getting vaporized.
Plus this Drones wer capable of stopping Orion and Superman on their track, so it means the drones are not weaklins.
I don’t know, We can only speculate with this one
Well you can see MMH is hurt after the fact, so it whether it was designed to hurt the drones alone or not the fact is it effected Superman and MMH.
Allthough probably not to the same degree as MMH wouldnt be able to take that and still be standing.
And I agree with SH, I think the Eclipso one should still stand. He inherits the weaknesses as well as the strength. It seems more like all that changes is the consciousness.
But whatever, he has better feats so it doesnt really matter either way.
Fury : Anyway, Superman let him get inside him, lol! Superman wanted to see if he was strong enought to get him out and he managed to.
Thats cause Superman is a badass lol
You know what on a third look I noticed the buildings in the 2nd scan of mageddon are getting damaged and yes there was a lot of drones arround before the explosion.
This may seem like the 4d explosion was indeed affecting everything else arround and it does I just confirm it in rock of ages where Aztek uses tha same device to destry the Zombie factory in the moon
Me 1
Alberto -6
WTF? Are you keeping track of this?
No, if so it would probably be like…..oh…-23 lmao
Yes keep dreaming
Let’s see if I can bring people back to this debate.
Since nobody is talking, with everything that was posted, Superman wins.
Number of factors your missing out. Ive noticed alot of people hold the wizards choice to be a main source of proof. Its just another opinion. I am going to answer every list of arguments you apparently solved?
1. Super Strength. You can consider Thor and Superman equal to a degree. But id favor Superman because Thor has been shown to be beat up by Hulks strength and nothing more. Plus feat wise when it comes to strength Dc has Marvel beat. Anything you show proof of Marvel doing DC has done something even more impressive. So unless Thor gets a boost in Warrior Madness mood the advantage IMO is Superman right off the bat.
Plus cant Superman just further his powers also? Hello, yellow sun? All Star Superman tripled his strength didnt he? Both characters powers have reached omnipotent levels so Im not going to stress too much on this and just say its equal. Thor with Odinforce and Superman Prime 1 million. Nuff said.
2. Super Speed. This goes to Superman….looks like your trying to find a reason for Thor to be able to keep up with Superman. Thor maybe able to see and swing the hammer fast due to the Hammers abilities but that doesnt mean Thor can think at the Speed of Light. Superman can so that spells alot of trouble for Thor…..Superman can come up with a plan at that speed and be able to get past the fast moving hammer and hit Thor. See without Thors hammer he is just another regular tuff guy.
3. Stanima
Superman has took Supernovas going off in his face. Lets compare …enough power to destory a planet resistance? Supernova? Hmm? Im going for the Supernova being stronger.
Ill give this to Superman also because without the yellow sun Superman will get tired just like anyother fighter after a long battle. But if the yellow sun is around that is a constant healing factory and it restores his powers. Thor would wear out first if he cant KO Superman. Simply because Superman is healing and Thor is not.
4. Magic is a advantage Thor has it disrupts Supermans aura that gives him his invulnerability. But Magic cannot totally get past Supermans defenses unless it comes from a all power source like the Spectre. Thors hammer is not that powerful. It would do no better than Captain Marvel punching Superman. All it would do is cause little damage unless it was a hard enough blow to knock out Superman. It would not be the same as a normal hammer hitting say me. Wizard has looked up alot of Thor comics but not Superman????
5.Still forgetting some of Supermans power. Superman is invulnerable and Thor is not. Superman is clever id say maybe a bit more clever than Thor. Fight experience id give to Thor tho but Superman is no Amature thats for sure. Superman can further his powers by absorbing more yellow sunlight? Thor may have a slight advantage here but thats all it is. Superman will also be healing while they are fighting as long as there is a yellow sun around. And if Thor loses that Hammer the fight for his is over. Light speed punches hitting him all over with the force of destorying planets. That spells lights out for Thor.
6. Superman beat Thor in a 2004 crossover. Yes but I wouldnt compare that to Superman beating Galactus. Plus there was a crossover with Superman and Galactus and that did not happen. Plus wasnt the writer for that comicbook a Marvel writer? You said DC wouldnt let Superman lose but it was a Marvel writer that wrote that comic? Thats a bit confusing.
Even tho you disagree….I dont…the fight shouldnt have been that short by no means but it is def. within Supermans powers to beat Thor and I completely agree with that.
Im not saying Thor cant win but Id give Superman atleast 6 out of 10.
Superman is the winner in this fight.
Superman should have atleast been number 2 and had a better debatable match against the Silver Surfer. Superman only capable of landing a couple of blows on the Surfer? Surfer eating all of his enegry match over? Thor beat Silver Surfer. Silver Surfer can also win but I wouldnt completely count out Superman there either.
Well said John
Another thing that disproves “Superman wins as a flagship character” is the fact that he has lost vs a marvel character in the past.
Plus that Kurt Busiek had been working with the avengers for 5 years and He had better chances of misstreating Superman than Thor.
Take your time reading above. I thought i could post it and edit.
Superman beats Thor, by far.
I agree. Plus how does Thor compare to Superman in Strength? I mean they consider them equal but really? Hulk there strongest guy lifts a mountain 150 tons of weight.
Superman lifts well over the millions of tons of weight with fair ease. While Hulk is struggling lifting up mountains. Bottom line weight beats up Thor and Hulk lifts mountains ok. Superman moves planets….how can you compare and say the 2 are equal? I dont get it. Superman has been known to move billions and billions of tons. I havent seen Thor come any where close to that.
Sorry, Hulk enraged was able to lift 150 billion tons. What i ment is Hulks base level of strength is 100 tons. And Superman base is problly in the millions.
While Hulk is enraged he lifts closer to Supermans level. Thor needing to be in Warrior madness to also lift millions of tons. Superman already with no power increases lifts that much weight and more depending on how much yellow sunlight he absorbs.
To highlight the massive difference in the top end feats as well, I have tried to calculate perform a calculation to show the weight of the Midgard Serpent (which Thor moved off the planet Earth) against the weight of 33% of the moons weight (which Superman has moved – he helped 2 others move the move the moon.
100 Diameter of the Midgard Serpents body in feet
3048 Diameter of the Midgard Serpents body in cm
7296604.762 Cross Sectional Area of the body in cm3
3.6 Density of the Flash of the Midgard Serpent in g/cm3
24860 Circumference of the Earth in miles
3999974000 Circumference of the Earth in cm
2.91862E+16 Total volume of the Midgard Serpent’s body in cm3
1.0507E+17 Total weight of the Midgard Serpent’s body in g
1.0507E+11 Total weight of the Midgard Serpent’s body in tonnes
245,000,000,000,000,000,000 33% of the moon’s weight
2331769369 Number of times greater that 33% the mass of the moon is than the weight of the Midgard Serpent.
I have made a few assumptions that should go in favour of of the Midgard Serpents weight – effectively maximising it.
In various picture , the serpent has been shown to look around 100 feet in diameter, hence the figure chosen.
I have used a fairly high density figure – making it at least 3x normal body density to reflect that Asgardian bodies are 3x denser than normal.
I have assumed for this calaculation that the Serpent is solid. Clearly he is not (he has a stomach etc) but this helped maximise his weight.
You can see that just 33% of the moon exceeds the weight of the Midgard Serpent by over 2.3 billion times.
Try Jupiter now. Superman moved a being as big as Jupiter without help, slowed down Eternity with Wonder Woman, lifted a book with infinite pages with Captain Marvel, held a Black Hole, moved a growing solar system, slowed down the Destroyer, a ship moving universes to universes, pulled the Earth back into orbit when Starbreaker, a powerful Cosmic being was pulling it toward the Sun, etc.
Try those.
@The Creator and John
This is great information comming from new sources other than “The Regulars”.
However Us “The Regulars” have proved this time and time again.
We have proved that:
A: Superman is in fact way stronger than Thor
B: Superman is more durable than Thor (even under his weaknesses, Superman has shown a great deal of durability)
C: Superman is faster than Thor
D: Superman hits harder than Thor
E: Superman can generate as much energy as Mjolnir
D: Superman MAY be able to absorb as much energy as Mjolnir
F: The ONLY real advantage of Thor is that He is a magical beign, thus compensates for his deficiencies in the other fields.
Like I said, We have proved this OVER AND OVER AGAIN. And still at the author’s apreciation Thor is more powerful and that is why the list stays the same.
But thanks for the great numbers.
Check this one out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0xKX0oUROE
@The Creator
See if you can get some numbers out of this feat
Superman’s infinite mass puch VS THE SHADOW MOON
According to Batman and GL the Shadow moon was a celestial body of 81 billion tons traveling at 7,614.000.00 km/h
Superman needed to PULVERIZE the body
So this is F=MA
If I’m correct (because I’m not a NASA scientist) It will require 171,315,000,000,000,000 newtons to move this obeject at that speed.
How hard did Superman have to hit this body in order to pulverize it?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/CRAZY%20FEATS/supesjlamx9.jpg
Actually that’s not really the best argument since you’re leaving-out context, but in the since that actually downplays Superman’s strength. Which is weird since you’re arguing Superman’s stronger than Thor. Of course I didn’t really look at your calculations, but assuming they’re correct, it’s still downplaying Superman’s strength.
Yes, Superman had help moving the Moon, by Green Lantern and Wonder Woman, in the example I believe you’re referring to(JLA #58). Thing is though, they were moving the Moon under Earth’s gravity at such speeds that the air around it caught fire, and then brought the Moon from Earth’s atmosphere back to it’s proper orbit in seconds, showing they moved the mass of the Moon at near-lightspeed. At least a third of lightspeed. So yeah the amount of force required to move it at those speeds would be a lot more than your calculations would show, since you didn’t seem to be factoring that in(based on your statements leaving-out the context on which they moved the Moon).
Just about every example I’ve seen of Superman moving the Moon or a planet, he has help. But at the same time, there’s circumstances that balance-out the help. Like moving the Moon with like 8 others in the JLA/TITANS mini, the Moon was engulfed in so much space stuff(ships, satalites, space stations, ect.) that it was being pulled out of it’s orbit. The moving the Moon at those speeds example. When he moved Krypton in that RETURN TO KRYPTON storyline, he had help from some massively huge engines. But this is balanced-out due to he was under a red sun(so was only losing power, not it being regained), had exerted at least some of his reserves with a huge blast of Heat Vision to ignite the engines, and the fact that Krypton is 10 times the size of Earth. Then when he helped move Earth with Wonder Woman and Martian Manhunter, that was balanced-out by the fact that a force was moving Earth out of it’s orbit, and the trio had just been raised from the dead and were not at full-power.
Superman does have various instances though showing him to be able to be a Moon-mover before they really started pushing his strength, though. Like JLA #7, he used his powers when he was Electro-Superman to move the Moon back into it’s proper orbit. He stated he was more powerful with his normal powers, implying he felt he could’ve moved it easier with his normal powers. And this issue was written with regular Superman in mind, before DC forced Grant Morrison to use Electro-Superman. An earlier instance had Superman grab, break the momentum, and throw a spaceship he stated to be the size of a small moon with ease, which he pointed-out showed he became far more powerful than before his death. That whole nearly knocking the Moon out of orbit by pounding on it when he was under Kryptonite poisoning. Also the time the Moon was being pushed out of it’s orbit by “geometrically increasing force” and Superman and Green Lantern took turns holding it in place, Superman did the last shift solo. Of course, Superman’s been pushed to much beyond these levels since.