The Mighty Thor and Superman are the heavy-hitters of Marvel and DC respectively, each of them arguably the most powerful hero in their respective universes. So its natural that this is without question the most discussed versus debate amongst comic book fans. No other versus battle comes close to being talked about as much than this one. Try to start a “Superman vs Thor” thread on any forum and the first response is sure to be: “Not this again”.
Some of you may remember our “Top 10 Most Powerful Superheroes” list that we released a while back, where we made the controversial claim that Thor was the most powerful superhero of all time (Superman coming in at number three on that list). Months later we are still receiving emails either agreeing with us, or flaming us for that decision. Many fans cite Superman’s speed as the deciding factor in any fight between the two behemoths. Other emails claim that Thor’s magical powers would be enough to stop the man of steel in his tracks. So, the natural question is, do we still stand by our claim that Thor is more powerful than Superman? The answer is still “yes.” In this article we’ll break down the seven most common arguments and give you our take on them.
1. Super Strength
The claim has often been made that Superman is stronger than Thor. Many times on versus forums threads this claim is accepted as a given by both sides of the debate. We don’t concede that the Man of Steel is physically stronger than the god of thunder though. Thor has performed feats such as lifting the World Serpent, and once hurled the Odinsword, an enormous mystical blade, through a Celestial! Thor has also single-handedly matched the strength of the Hulk on numerous occasions (the Marvel Universe’s strongest character). Not only that but Thor is capable of entering into a state known as the “Warrior’s Madness”, which will temporarily increase his strength tenfold. Some of these feats have no true equivalent in the DC universe. We think at the very least, the two character’s physical strength is equal.
2 . Super Speed
This is Superman’s one true advantage in this fight. Superman is fast. We’re talking warp speed fast. We’re talking once around the entire planet and back before you can blink fast. You could easily make the argument that Thor would be lucky if he even saw Superman before he got pounded. But is Thor as slow as everyone seems to think? Unknown to many DC fanboys Thor can throw his hammer at the speed of light (See Thor#140, Thor#274). He can also swing it at TWICE the speed of light (Journey Into Mystery#102). In Thor -#393- it’s established that the speed of Thor’s hammer TRANSCENDS both TIME & SPACE. In addition Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds (see- FF#339, and Thor#166). And, most importantly, Thor could, visually, detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire- see Invaders#33- and Avengers-#281- when he saw the speedy Hermes. And yes, I do need a life). Now if we accept that Superman can move at 99% of the speed of light, and that Thor can swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, it stands to reason that big blue is in some trouble. It’s true that Thor doesn’t use his super speed abilities often, but how many times have you seen Superman not use his super speed when he should have?
3. Stanima
Who can take more punishment, Thor or Superman? This is a difficult question. Thor has withstood a blast from Asgardian Destroyer. Superman has withstood a direct hit from a nuclear bomb. Thor has taken everything the Hulk could dish out. Thor also once took a glancing hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion he fell from space (leaving a crater miles wide) to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Thor has also taken everything that Gladiator (an arguably more powerful version of Superman) could dish out. Both characters have come back from the dead a couple of times. In my mind this one is a draw. Both characters have approximately the same stanima. The difference is Superman has weaknesses (i.e. Kryptonite, Magic, and the fact he is powerless without yellow sunlight) whereas Thor pretty much doesn’t.
4. Magic
Even the most diehard Superman fan would concede that Thor’s magical abilities would be an advantage for Thor. First, I would like to note that just because an opponent can wield magic, it in no way guarantees a win over the last son of Krypton. Superman has defeated countless magic users in the past, and so I have no illusions that just because Thor has magic powers and a magic hammer that he would automatically own Superman. That being said magic is just as lethal against Supes as kryptonite. Superman has no defense against it, and it can affect him greatly. Superman getting pounded by Mjolnir is the same as you and me getting pounded by a normal hammer. And consider the guy who’s swinging it. It’s Thor. The god of thunder. Not only that, but Thor’s lightning is magical too. Remember that just a single lightning bolt is equivalent to 15,000,000 volts of electricity and could travel over 224,000 miles an hour. The clear advantage here goes to Thor.
5. Super Powers
Before Thor inherited the Odinforce, the super powers of these two heroes were a little more even. Now there is absolutely no contest. Thor has a clear edge over Superman here. His magical hammer gives Thor the ability to control the weather, the ability to fly; energy projection and absorption; dimensional apertures; matter manipulation, as well as the most powerful of his offensive powers: the God Blast, and the Anti-Force. Superman is no push over in this department either, with the already mentioned super strength, super speed, as well as heat vision, x-ray vision, enhanced senses, and the ability to blow hurricane force winds from his mouth. But what is that compared to being able to summon an actual hurricane? Not only that but with the Odinforce Thor was then capable of feats such as reconstructing the Earth’s Moon, willing the Asgardian monster Mangog into nothingness, and by focusing his entire power into a hammer throw that even decapitated a Desak-occupied Asgardian Destroyer. Having accepted his heritage as the son of the earth goddess Gaea, he has recently been shown to be capable of opening chasms in the earth itself, and who knows what other abilities he’ll be displaying now that he’s done that.
6. Superman beat Thor in the Avengers / DC Crossover
I don’t want to spend much time on this one. Most fans of comics know how much weight we should give to crossovers. Besides, I personally have no doubt that Superman would beat Galactus in a crossover. He’s DC’s flagship character after all. Enough said on that one.
7. Thor has Thousands of Years of Combat Experience
This is a common argument used by Thor fans to claim that Thor would take down Superman. It seems fairly obvious. If I somehow gained super powers and a Viking Warrior somehow gained the exact same or nearly equivalent powers, most people would put their money on the Viking if we fought each other. Now imagine the Viking warrior was thousands of years older than me, and had been using his powers for all those thousands of years to battle trolls, giants, demons, robots, aliens, and gods, and I have only been using my powers for 20-30 years. It seems clear to me that the Viking Warrior god has a clear cut advantage over me in a fight. Again advantage Thor.
It seems obvious to me that Thor has a clear advantage over Superman in a fight. I don’t think that Thor is so powerful that there is no way that Superman could ever defeat him. But I believe that the majority of the time Thor would beat Superman in a one on one fight, assuming its not a fight to the death. If it is a fight to the death, then I think Thor would almost invariably win. So there you have it, the definitive answer to one of the most talked about and controversial debates in comic book nerdom. Brought to you by your pals at Old-Wizard.com.
I’ll get the reference later Rick
If you read before, I said I will get it
So I can shut your trap. I just wonder what are you going to do when I show you the evidence. I’m going to laugh at your face so bad, That you probably won’t come back
If you can’t wait for me to find the link, you can look fot it by yourself, it is in the comix post of 2006, but you ahve to go trough 365 days of posts.
Or you can write to this guys and ask, why the crossover is considered canon and if they can give references to prove it.
You will be dissapointed
If I were you, I should start apologizing or just leave with your tail between you legs, like Duke did.
I will ask for the link by myself or a trascript copy of it.
contact@avengersforever.net
Notice the e-mail is not hotmail.com, yahoo.com or g-mail.com, so is not a personal account
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha poor Rick
@Rick
I have seen those scans before, actually I post them once
If you read carefully I point at why I make such a big deal about the crossover, because feats get disregard by the Thor side!!!
I know that Zero is not gonig to take into account the crossover, That does not stop the fact that is canon
If superman has such a big problem (like you said) with toyman or lex is because he holds back, the same way Thor does, brainiac.
Seriously, how old are you? 12?, 14?, 15?
Delusional ME? YOU are the one imagining the word “ATTACK” on the scan of the Surfer, NOT ME!
Well if Thor can defeat Celestials, Superman has a pretty good shot at it.
And is not what Delta and I claim, Is what the SCANS AND THE COMICS STATE.
MORON!!!
Hahahahahahahahaha
, poor guy
Ok here is Superman fighting against Wonder Woman using a magical blade.
Superman cracks the Magical blade’s handle, with a DROP of his blood being thrown at super speed.
Can you say ridiculous?
Hm? I wonder if Superman can crack Mjolnir with a drop of his blood? maybe, maybe not. Oh well!
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/spww21eo0wy.jpg?t=1257902086
Superman survived being smashed between 2 planets
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/deathofthenewgods080260vb0.jpg?t=1257902431
Superman lifting INFINITE weight
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/fcsb3d1p24fj5.jpg?t=1257902510
Kicking Ultraman’s butt
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/40603807sb1.jpg?t=1257902975
More of it
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/86621276bw7.jpg?t=1257903064
Generating enough static electricity, to contain a mini black hole
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Untitled-7.gif?t=1257904686
Capable of shatering planets
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/629533-sladeflash3ea_super.jpg?t=1257904874
Capable of shatring the boundaries of space and time
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/019kl9me.jpg?t=1257904920
Red Sun + Kryptonite = No Problem
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Untitled-3.gif?t=1257904994
Holding a mini black hole
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/Untitled-6.gif?t=1257905085
Can Superman survive two black holes?
Yeaph!
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/untitled152oe8eq.jpg?t=1257905274
Catching a Flash punch?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/t6a5nc.jpg?t=1257905346
Poisoned with kryptonite and still invulnerable?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/supessick6jm.jpg?t=1257905398
Surviving magical transmutation?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/supermanvol2047p16ku8.jpg?t=1257905552
Can race a speeding photon?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SupesracingPhoton.jpg?t=1257905748
Dracula?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SupesandDracula.jpg?t=1257905776
No problem!
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/SupesandDracula2.jpg?t=1257905916
Okay, I must say I agree with Alberto. There is one thing funny. Superman doesn’t have the ”god” title and Thor has it. How a simple Kryptonian, without any god powers make that much trouble against a God of Marvel Universe? Damn, DC Gods must be totaly invincible. Superman actually survived Imperiex Probes blasts, destroyed The Imperiex and way more things (I am not going to give more exemples since Alberto gave alot of them). And please, don’t even try comparing the Villains of both Superheroes, they are totaly different.If you wanna go there… I really don’t know each kinds of Superman since there was so many of them (Pre-Crisis, Superboy Prime etc…) but Superman managed to beat the greatest ennemy he would ever see : Anti-Monitor. If you don’t agree with me, it’s your choice but don’t be a stupid fanboy. You give your point and you read what people write to defend their opinions. That’s HOW a debate works. (That’s to Rick). If your 8 years old and you never did any debate, it’s okay, I understand.
Alberto really know his stuff just like Delta. Give them some respect. You might think you know your Marvel stuff but these guys are Brainiacs in DC stuff and maybe even Marvel.
How was that lifting infinite weight? Nowhere did it say infinite weight. Alberto fails again.
The book you retard? God, go to school!
“Poisoned with kryptonite and still invulnerable?
http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/Superman/supessick6jm.jpg?t=1257905398”
Still invulnerable to a needle? HAHA. Dude did you even look at these scans????
Where does it say the book’s weight is infinite, retard??
There is infinite book in it, moron. Start reading. Same for the Kryptonite scan. The robot is saying that it needs to be calibrated for someone like Superman even if he’s under Kryptonite effect.
How about Thor reconstructing the moon while holding back the Odin power:
http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4215/17wa6.jpg
That’s an actual feat, dickhead.
Here’s where you’re a moron. Adding an infinite number of numbers doesn’t always equal an infinite result.
I can add 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/16 + … out to infinity and it will equal 1. So maybe you should try THINKING before posting a comment.
Unless the panel says its INFINITE weight, its not.
Wow! What a beautiful job! He’s supposed to be a god. Superman is just a Kryptonian in DC. That’s just way too funny that a ”god” of Marvel is having that much trouble with Superman, the Kryptonian.
Just because the book has infinite information doesn’t mean the book weighs an infinite amount. So, tell me this, imbecile, how can superman lift infinite weight, and then STRUGGLE to lift the daily planet??? What a fucking tool.
Dude, you need to learn about comics. Asgardians in Marvel are more like aliens than gods. Have you ever read a comic book? Or do you just cheerlead losers like Alberto?
That’s what the creators are trying to show us. People are always saying ”Oh, Superman is getting his ass kicked by DoomsDay, etc..” The point is that Superman has a big heart. He just doesn’t want to hit anyone or even kill any of the villains he encounter. He’s not even using the 1/6 of his powers. God, he freaking beat the Big Bang and even The Anti-Monitor who’s almost the same of Galactus (Galactus eats planets and Anti-Monitor destroy universes).
Thor has beaten THE Galactus. My God, at least Alberto almost knows what he’s talking about.
That’s funny since the first title they give to Thor is ”The God of Thunder”. And no. I never read a comic book and I still can argue with you. Why I never read a comic book? I am not a terrible fanboy who thinks he’s always right. I am going to bed. I’ll answer to your crap tomorrow kiddo. And man, start to read correctly or buy some glasses. That’s incredible how you can’t read correctly small sentences. Good Night kid.
Whats stronger? Someone who destroy planets or someone who destroy Universes?
I can easily match any feats you have Alberto.
Strength: Lifting the Midgard Serpent, which is large enough to encircle the earth. Lifted the Odinsword, said to be immeasurable in weight (could be hyperbole).
Speed: Moved faster than Hela could conceive in a confrontation with her, stating that he can move with the speed of the lightning itself. He has crossed NYC in a heartbeat, which isn’t that greatest feat, but still pretty darn great. He has also twirled Mjolnir 2 times the speed of light.
Power: Absorbed with Mjolnir the energies of a bomb that could destroy a galaxy and used that energy to reignite a star.
Galactus has been stated to have that power, dumbass.
He doesn’t ONLY destroy planets. He feeds on them. It doesn’t mean the only thing he can destroy is planets.
Here are some of Thor’s powers (Someone else sent this to me)
1)SPATIAL POWERS: A) Ability to materialized anywhere across the known Marvel Universe (Fantastic Four-#339, Thor-#165). B) Ability to create Dimensional portals or Rifts (Thor Annual#16, Avengers#309). Also, able to send an entire population to LIMBO for their own protection (Thor#192). C) In addition, Thor’s hammer has the capability to send just about ANY SENTIENT BEING to just about any other LOCATION in the known Universe-Avengers-#180 vs. the Monolith, or DIMENSIONS (the Fourth, the Fifth, the Sixth, or even the Seventh Dimension- it doesn’t matter) See- Avengers-#9, and Avengers-#16(vol.1), or even an ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE-Avengers-#7 (vol.1). Specifically, Thor doesn’t necessarily need to create a vortex to remove any immediate threat- See-Thor-# 279 vs. Ulik, Thor-#173, and Thor-#425 where a blast by Thor’s hammer ripped wide the fabric of the Universe itself and sent Surtur and Yimir to the Death Dimension. Thus, Thor can literally send anything, or anyone to the other side of the Galaxy thousands of light years away with just a mere magic bolt fired at his enemy. One of the GREATEST EXAMPLE of Thor’s Spatial capability occurred in Thor-#242, when Horus, Osiris, and Isis Giant Pyramid destroyed a significant portion of the Orange Groves (Trees) of San Diego, California when it sprouted from beneath the Earth in their search of Odin. All of then were all fully restored along with the vanishing of the great Pyramid by a vortex created by Thor’s MAGICAL hammer-as if the destruction that took place there never happened. Now, that’s power!!!! Another great example of Thor’s Spatial capability occurred when the hammer passed right through Kang’s Force Field and struck him as if the Force-Field was not present at all-See Avengers-Annual-#21. Kang was near death by the blow from Thor’s hammer. Therefore, characters like Magneto, Graviton, or even the Molecule Man are not, in fact, EXACTLY safe inside their Force-Field. In addition, Thor can call his hammer from even deep space; distance doesn’t seem to be an obstacle- Avengers-#19.
2) TRANSMUTATION OF ELEMENTS: Thor transmuted the Absorbing Man’s wood and iron body to helium (a gas). See Journey Into Mystery #115. Emphatically, in this issue, Thor explicitly said that, “I have the power to transmute the Elements themselves”.
3) THERMOBLAST: The ability to produce a Planet shaking Thermo-Blast capable of decimating an entire Planet (Ego). See Thor#133.
4) BARRIERS: Thor’s hammer can produce barriers a la the Invisible Women (see Thor#181, and Thor#395). In Thor-#181 not even EXTREMELY innovative Earth weapon’s blasts could make even a dent on Thor’s Force-Field that surrounded the U.N. In addition, Thor said that his hammer could surely have contained Stellaris Cosmic Flash that would have consumed the entire Planet Earth-See Thor-#421. However, if you think that’s something, Thor once created an indestructible Mystical Vortex that CONTAINED the explosion of a Life-Bomb that would have destroyed a Fifth of the Marvel Universe-AVENGERS-ANNUAL-#16. If that’s the case, then Thor did managed to save literally millions of Galaxies, as a result.
5) POWER TO ABSORB: A) Thor’s hammer can absorb limitless amount of energy. For instance, Thor’s hammer absorbed the energy of a Null Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire Galaxy and turn it to Cosmic energy and Re-Ignite a Dead Sun (a Galaxy may contain 200 billion to 400 billions Solar Systems-depending on their relative size). B) In Avengers-#171, from a DISTANCE, Thor absorbed Ultron’s entire energy source with just a single blast from his hammer. C) Thor’s hammer can, also, absorb other significant sources of energy including: Cosmic (Silver Surfer-#4), also, when Thor completely absorbed Sky-Walker’s Cosmic raging Tempest into his hammer-Thor-#305. Also, Radioactive energy (Avengers-#304), Magnetism (Thor#-387) where Thor absorbed a portion of the Planet of Pangoria’s Magnetic energy, and Magneto’s Personal Magnetic Field-JIM-#109; and Mystical- specifically, when he absorbed a significant mystical portion of EVERY Earth’s PANTHEON (Thor#301), and Pluto’s Deadly (mystical) Fire-Flame-#Thor-#223. In addition, Thor can absorb Magic from a DISTANCE-Avengers-#276. D) It’s important to, also, point out that Thor’s hammer can absorbed many of these particular sources of energy, and RETURN IT back to the originator; sometimes amplify many times over.
Note: It’s really no wonder at all that Thor absorbed the Electromagnetic energies of the Celestial Mother-ship with such ease- see Thor#288.
6) LIFE-FORCE, OR GOD-FORCE: Thor’s immortal life force could be more powerful than the mystical properties of his hammer; that when combined with the power of his hammer can release incredible amounts of energy- Thor#388. Galactus tasted defeat when Thor used the Life Force on him- see Thor#161. Thor’s Life-Force, or God-Force, also destroyed the Brain Dome of the 20,000ft. Tall Celestial Exitar; which should be many times more durable than Adamantiun considering their thousands, if not, millions of years of technology ahead of the human race. Also, the Destroyer using ALL OF HIS POWERS at his command could not destroy Thor’s Life-Force- See Thor-#381.
7) REVERSE ENERGY: A) Thor’s hammer can reverse energy polarities (Avengers#70 vs. Hyperion- when Thor reverse the Atomic process that gave Hyperion his powers, and reduced him to the size of an Ant. B) Thor Annual#16 (Beta Ray Bill vs. Ego) In this instance, BRB was in the verge of drawing out all of Ego’s Magnetic Polarities to outer space, and Ego happens to be an entire Planet. C) Thor reversed the Enchanter’s Magic that initially transformed humans to Monsters-Thor-#18. In addition, Thor’s hammer can reverse a Psychic attack- see Thor #428.
Cool INCREASE THE POWER OF LIGHTNING, AND OTHERS: Thor can increase the lightning effectiveness TEN THOUSAND FOLDS!!!!-See Thor-#421; or perhaps more, and increase and magnify just about any OTHER type of energy source several times over-see THOR-#22 vs. Thanos, and Avengers-#8 (vol.1) vs. Kang. An excellent example would be when Thor defeated Prime by increasing single lightning bolt a hundred folds, and proceeded by blast him with it (Remember that just a single lightning bolt is equivalent to 15,000,000 volts of electricity and could travel 100 million feet a second). However, the MOST devastating lightning attack ever conceived by Thor is one that involves the “PUREST OF LIGHTNING”. In other words, a bolt of “Purest of Lightning”; which is a Magical bolt that emanates FROM THOR’S HAMMER- creates a chain reaction of pure energy causing the ground SURROUNDING the blast to ERUPT like a living VOLCANO; thus, producing a Giant Crater along with a Holocaust of White-Hot Lava. Thor-#156. Thor had to escape not only by running, but FLYING out of the ensuing danger or else he would had, most certainly, forfeit his life. How did the Silver Age Mangog survive, or was not seriously injured, by a DIRECT-HIT of this bolt is beyond me. If some fans were highly impressed by DC’s Captain Marvel effective lightning attack on Superman, what in the world would they think about a lightning bolt such as that one created by Thor against the Mangog? Not even ashes would remain of Superman if Thor would strike at him directly with such a bolt of pure energy, and, to be perfectly honest, Thor doesn’t really need that much firepower to blast, for instance, anything including a Ship to Atoms-See-Avengers-#82 (vol.1). And, finally, Thor can effectively direct multiple lightning strikes as he once did against several Celestials at the same time-Thor-#300.
9) SPY: Thor could spy on people like a closed circuit TV. From same dimension, or another without being noticed- see Thor#278. With such power you could find just about any criminals, serial killers, terrorist, etc. with relatively ease.
10) SPEED: A) Thor could throw the hammer at the speed of light. See Thor#140, Thor#274; and, or can swing the hammer at TWICE the speed of light- Journey Into Mystery#102. B) In Thor -#393- it’s established that the speed of Thor’s hammer TRANSCENDS both TIME & SPACE. C) Also, Thor could appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds (see- FF#339, and Thor#166). D) In addition, Thor could, visually, detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happen when Thor was the target of artillery fire- see Invaders#33- and Avengers-#281- when he saw the speedy Hermes). E) In the early issues of Journey Into Mystery, there were instances that Thor used Super-Human speed, physically speaking-that is. However, it’s impossible to measure his speed based on those depictions. However, in Marvel Team-up#26, it gives a slight more accurate description on Thor’s Super-Human speed, and you could make a similar case in Invaders-#33, where Thor (with his hammer) deflected artillery bullets fired at him by moving his ENITRE LEFT ARM at super-Human speed. Specifically, in Marvel Team Up-#26, the writer makes it fundamentally clear that Thor can move almost faster than mere MORTAL eyes can follow, and in Thor-#354, Thor was toying with Hela using speed that according to her was beyond comprehension. Thor stated that he was swift as the very lightning itself. G) Finally, the High Evolutionary using Thor’s DNA, did create a real Super-Speedster in Zefra. Question is, does Thor possess similar potential to that of Zefra due to his own unique DNA? After all, Thor’s DNA is quite different than that of mortals- Avengers-#14 (vol.1)- that’s for the writers to decide in some future date, I guess.
Note: It’s firmly established that: 1) Thor can see objects, or beings moving at fantastic speeds, and 2) Thor can react even faster to defend himself against these specific threats. (Artillery bullets can go from anywhere from 600 ft. per second to more than 5,000 ft.) Thor said, as the speed of his hammer physically deflected Mongoose, “My mystic mallet can attain velocities which are BEYOND your ability to grasp!” In other words, let us assume that a Marvel character like Gladiator, who can’t possibly defeat Thor from a distance, decides to use super-speed on him, he might just as well be committing suicide- considering how dangerously powerful Thor’s hammer truly is, plus the hammer could reach velocity that exceeds well-above the speed of light. The Kinetic effect would be UTTERLY devastating. Picture an object that weights practically thousands of tons (The Hulk couldn’t even budge the hammer when he tried to lifted using the Full strength of both his arms, and the people of Pangoria’s mightiest Cranes couldn’t budge it either) whirling at fantastic speed and striking someone, or something coming at incredible speed as well; to put it simply (considering the latter), whatever the hammer hits, it DESTROYS.
11) INVULNERABILITY: The following are historical examples of incredibly devastating forces that has been used against Thor. Thor has survived each of these highly Lethal attacks, and most of the time have come out unscathed. A) Thor has been on the receiving end of Zeus and Blitziana’s LIGHTNING bolts. B) Thor withstood a barrage of ARTILLARY fire with ease, and a Heat Seeking Missile- see Thor#480, and Thor-#247; C) and in the J. Kirby’s days Thor used to test his invulnerability by having a Cobalt Bomb explode next to him. D) Kang’s Dissolution blast to the EXTREME did not fell Thor-Avengers-#143, and in Avengers-#295 Mechanosaurus struck Thor with a Megahertz Artillery fire that would easily destroy any vehicle to pieces- with no visible effect on Thor (Note: even bullets from a powerful sub-machine gun can’t hope to accomplish the same amount of penetration or destruction that could a Megahertz artillery attack by Mechnanosaurus). In Avengers-#5-pg 20- it explicitly stated that nothing, not even an ATOMIC BLAST could injure Thor, or his hammer. E) Thor resisted the full power of the Man from Saturn’s Graviton ray-Thor-#255. F) Thor withstood the Thermal Man’s HEAT blast that could melt Tanks instantly, also, Thor was insensitive to the Lava Man’s attack- see Avengers #5. In addition, Thor withstood a direct hit by Firelord’s Cosmic Flame with absolutely no dire visible effect on him- Thor-#306, and Ghost Rider’s Flame proved to be totally ineffectual against Thor, as well- Avengers-#214, and when the Planet Ego raised his internal heat temperature to the EXTREME, it had no affect on Thor-See Thor-#133. G) Thor was unaffected by an Alien Freeze Ray-Avengers-#14 (vol.1). H) In terms of indescribable sheer Magical, and Cosmic power, for instance, Thor was just temporarily stunned by Ego’s pulsating energy attack that would, physically, have rendered AN ENTIRE RACE UNCOUNSCIOUS- Thor-#133. In addition, Thor withstood blast by Odin-Thor-#241, by the Celestials-Thor-#300, and by a space Armada-Avengers-Annual#7. However, the three most impressive testimony events that showed Thor’s invulnerability, however, was when he, almost, took a direct hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion Thor felt from space to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Also, Thor resisted the weight of Multitude of Planets-Thor Annual-#9, and the Gravity of a Neutron Star-Thor-#282. The other event took place when Thor paid an uninvited visit to ATUM in the Sun’s core. If you think that this wasn’t enough, Thor has survive incredible physical punishment by the likes of the Destroyer, Durok, the Mangog, Surtur- Thor-#351, by the Devourer-Marvel Two In One-#23, The Thermal Man, Terminus, the 300,000 ft. tall Rhun god when he swatted Thor aside-Thor#220, and the Celestial- The One Above All- when he not only swatted Thor aside, but did hurled at him unnumbered tons of delicate machinery at him with no significant adverse effect on Thor-See Thor-#288.
12) ELEMENTAL POWERS: That can transcend to other dimensions, and or space and time (see-Thor#188). No other Superhero in the Multiverse has that scope of elemental powers. In addition, Thor’s hammer can tap, practically, on just about any Elemental Phenomenon in the Cosmos, like, for example, the limitless energy of a Maelstrom and used that energy as a Cosmic weapon. A Celestial Maelstrom can literally drag large Meteors, or Asteroids around at Fantastic Speed-Thor-#261. The power of a Hurricane is next to nothing compare to the devastating power of a Celestial Maelstrom. Also, Thor’s power can create Thunderstorm, Tidal Waves, and exploding Volcanoes on a Planetary scale-Journey Into Mystery-#94. In fact, if, somehow, Thor’s hammer is unmade the consequences are unthinkable and cataclysmic: Not only Erupting Volcano’s worldwide, Tidal Waves would immediately ensue, but Impact of Celestial bodies, as well- Avengers-#330. Also, Thor can use the power of the storm at a moment’s notice. For instance, Thor used a spear of wind, or an indescribable powerful tornado, that he literally pushed against Surtur, that cause Surtur to say: “NEVER HAVE I FELT SUCH FORCE!” And, in that same issue, Thor used the power of the Storm to divert an Asteroid from it’s course and hurl it against Surtur-Thor-#177. In addition, Thor’s power over the Storm can create enough suction to whisk famous landmarks like the Eiffel Tower into the Atmosphere-JIM-#94.
13) TRANSMIGRATION OF SOULS: Thor’s hammer has the ability to transmigrate souls- see Thor#363.
14) HEALING FACTOR: Thor’s hammer can speed up healing (Thor#155).
15) ERASE MEMORY: Thor’s hammer can, in effect, erase memory (Invaders#33).
16) SLEEP: Thor’s hammer can really put you to sleep (Thor#372).
17) A DETECTOR, OR THOR’S HAMMER ABILITY TO TRACK: Thor’s hammer can detect where evil is a foot (Thor#417); or can track anyone who doesn’t want to be found (Avengers#14). In addition, Thor’s hammer can track practically all kinds of energy signature-Thor Corps-#1, Avengers-#309, and Strange Tales-#182. In addition, something that is called ELECTRONS FREE FLOWING enables Thor’s hammer to detect any Asgardian’s Aura by their electron’s discharge- See Journey Into MYstery#104.
1Cool HEARING: Thor can, Mystically, hear when someone is calling his name-Thor-#342 (distance doesn’t seem to be an obstacle). Thor was presently in Manhattan, when an old Viking was calling Thor from the Continent of Antarctica.
19) VITALITY: Thor’s hammer can increase VITALITY to any being that finds himself in a significant weak state. I guess Viagra, and Ginseng would have to take a serious back seat to Thor’s hammer in this case-See Thor-#343.
20) COSMIC ENERGY: Thor’s hammer can produce Cosmic Energy (Avengers#5).
21) SOLAR FLARES: Thor’s hammer can produce Solar Flares; which is about twice the temperature of the Sun.
22) ANTI-MATTER PARTICLES: Thor’s hammer can manufacture Anti-Matter particles. These particles could potentially erase anyone, or anything from existence. It’s little wonder why Kang’s Anti-Matter Screen that’s capable of instantly disintegrating any Earthly matter did not affected Thor’s hammer in the least-See Avengers-#8 (vol.1).
23) ALPHA PARTICLES: Thor’s hammer can harness Alpha Particles from the atmosphere and could use it to Atomize any weaponry, JIM-#102.
24) INTERDIMENSIONAL ENERGY: Thor’s hammer can tap or attract quantities of Interdimensional Matrix energy (In this case, Matrix meaning from the main or principal source). This is certainly an extraordinary significant power and ability-Thor-#395.
25) INVISIBILITY AND INTANGIBILITY: In order to protect the Black Knight, Thor created a vortex surrounding the Black Knight that was completely Invisible and Intangible to all eyes except Thor’s-Avengers-#300. Also, in a quarrel against the Vision, Thor used his hammer to completely disrupt the Vision while he was in a Intangible state, thus rendering the Vision senseless-Avengers Annual-#8. In addition, check LS list below on Thor-#428 regarding Phasing.
26) CROWD MANIPULATION: Thor’s hammer can put literally an entire crowd in a trance, or totally under his control by using the Sun’s rays-Thor-#102. The head of Thor’s hammer lights up like a mini-Sun.
27) MAGNETISM: Thor can attract or magnetize Mechanical constructs into the ground, such as Flying Vehicles, Giant robots (JIM-#101,102), and even sentient beings like Loki. Thor attracted him when he was about to jump from a cliff-Avengers-#no.1. In addition, Thor’s hammer can create a MAGNETIC FIELD (a la Magneto) that enabled him to temporarily transport himself, Captain America, Sersi, Jarvis and Spiderman to a pre-determine destination-Avengers-#315. This makes quite a lot of sense since Thor’s power over Magnetism has been well documented since the creation of his character in the early 60’s. .
2Cool ANTI-GRAVITY: (SOMETIMES, MISTAKENLY CALLED ANTI-FORCE): A power that can literally Physically incapacitates his opponent, and sent then where they came from. Thor did this to the Super-Skrull when he sent him from Earth to his space ship in Earth’s orbit. The Super-Skrull said, “I AM HELPLESS—caught in the grip of a FORCE I cannot begin to comprehend!” This power is similar to that of Graviton. Another such example occurred when Beta Ray Bill-Thor- #440- repelled the Giant Uroc upward against gravity to the surprise of both Dargo and Thundestrike.
29) ANTI-FORCE: The full power of the Anti-Force is so unbelievably powerful and the fury of such blast is so indescribable that Thor, with just one blast, once took out an entire Battalion of Barbarians along with Boulders, and a Giant Tank that was literally ripped to shreds against that devastating onslaught-Thor-#205. In terms of range, Thor’s Anti-Force could cover a wide area. In Thor-#207, Thor was trapped by Giant Boulders, and with just one Power-Blast the Giant Boulders were torn to pieces. Against Ego, Thor destroyed an entire Building thrown at Thor at close range with another Power-Blast-Thor-#203.
30) MIND RESISTANCE: Thor resisted the Mind-Thrust Of the Colonizer, the Mind Blast of the Super-Beast- THOR-#135, and resisted a Mind-Storm Blast that the Beast, Iron Man, and most especially Moondragon could not-Avengers-#138.
31) NETHERWORLD POWER: or power from the dark dimensions (Thor#101). Check on Ghost Rider unique Supernatural abilities.
32) ESSENCE OF LIGHT: Thor’s hammer infused the Demon Darkoth with the Essence of Light to counteract Mephisto’s Essence of Evil. Thus, turning the Demon away from Mephisto’s Evil control- Thor-#325.
33) STAMINA AND DURABILITY: Thor could endure a prolonged battle for a period of months without pause, or respite against Zeus (Thor#Annual#Cool.
34) THE HAMMER ALWAYS RETURNS: No matter the distance the hammer is thrown, or what it strikes the hammer always returns to Thor.
35) ABILITY TO FLY: Thor’s hammer provides the ability for Thor to fly at such speed that he can literally become invisible-JIM-#94, and can perform complicated maneuvers like performing a Pinwheel around a Flying Trans-Atlantic Jet-JIM-#107. Thor top flying speed has been clocked at THREE TIMES the speed of LIGHT-Thor-#185. In addition, Thor can transport the Avengers by literally flying together from one area of the city to another-Avengers-#58.
36) INTELLIGENCE: Thor’s former alter ego Dr. Blake was a highly intelligent, skill physician, who specialized in surgery; plus, he knows the way of this mundane world since he lived among the human race for some time. In addition, Thor is part of a superior advance alien race. This was manifested in Journey Into Mystery#95, where Dr. Blake constructed an Android that could withstand the blows of Thor’s hammer; and provided this Android with, almost, unlimited intelligence. Also, in the same issue, Dr. Blake, by duress, helped a scientist with an apparatus that could duplicate anything or anybody; including Thor and his hammer. Talk about instant cloning!!! Also, we must not forget that the Asgardians had, in the past, used highly technical advance weapons against the likes of Surtur, The Mangog, Seth, etc; including, when Odin provided Thor a Star Ship for the purpose of finding Galactus in their second encounter. Furthermore, Thor knows most of Earth’s languages- Thor-#290.
37) MJOLNIR’S STRENGTH: A) Thor’s hammer is capable of shattering entire Mountains- Thor-#156, pulverizing small Planetoids (see Thor#400), could shake an entire planet (see Thor#388), or even destroy an entire World- Thor-#125. With just a hard tap (with the hammer) Thor completely broke Loki’s arm. Thor simply holds back against his opponent because he doesn’t want to take a life- see Thor#305. However, when he decides to end someone’s existence he could do it with just a single blow-See Thor’s-#374, where he killed the Super-Strong Mutant Block-Buster with just a blow from Mjolnir. To really analyze the full strength of Thor’s hammer- in Thor#388, Thor shook the planet Pangoria without even hitting the surface of the planet (the Celestial Exitar took the hit). What this mean is: that you can drop a dozen Hydrogen Bombs in one single place, or point, and that still wouldn’t shake a whole planet. B) Also, the power within the hammer can, also, destroy an entire World- Fantastic Four-#339. In fact, the full power of the hammer can radiate with the energy of a THOUSAND SUNS…enough to even destroy an Entity such as Surtur. Thor stated AFFIRMATIVELY that this incomprehensible energy gathered by his hammer would have, indeed, destroyed Surtur… the eldest, and probably the most powerful Elemental in the Marvel Universe. Only the Twighlight Sword saved Surtur from destruction-Thor-#351.
3Cool WARRIOR’S SKILLS: Thor is an expert at fighting in armed and unarmed combat, and should know most of his opponent vital weakness. At least this is the way it was portrayed in the first famous Marvel vs. DC crossover. He’s the best warrior in Asgard. The Absorbing Man, when he acquire Thor’s powers and could not defeat him, he said: “It ain’t fair!!!” “What’s good my strength, my power if I can’t land a blow?”, “I didn’t know it was gonna be like this!!!” The very same thing happened to Warlock, to the Juggernaut (when Thor took his invulnerable force field), Mr. Hyde (Thor#106), also, Pluto and Ares (the god of war) when Thor really cut loose in Blood And Thunder. In addition, Thor outclassed in the strength department, defeated Ares who triple his strength-Thor-#223, and had Ulik on the ropes irrespective of the fact that Ulik augmented his strength several times over, defeated the Android Zotarr-Thor-#238, but the most impressive victory of all was when Thor defeated Grog the god crusher without his powers, super-strength, and being a mortal-Thor-#397. To put it simply, Thor’s skills are simply phenomenal. However, the best testimony of Thor’s power and skills came from the mouth of none other than Captain America. In Thor-#390, Captain America said when he lifted Thor’s hammer, “I’ve never wielded such LIMITLESS POWER before!” “It’s almost intoxicating!” In Avengers-#4 (vol.1), Captain America said, “Thor’s hammer!” “It’s the most AWESOME weapon I’ve ever seem!” Finally, in Avengers-Annual-#18, Captain America stated this about Thor’s skills, “He is an expert combatant, having been trained for hundreds of years in the art of war.” “His understanding of tactics and strategies ENCOMPASSES the teaching of cultures over several centuries.”
39) SUPER-STRENGTH: Thor is the strongest pound for pound Superhero in the Marvel Universe. It’s true that the Hulk is just as strong as Thor, but he probably weights twice as much. There’re many unparallel feats of Thor’s strength that should be worth mentioning. For instance, A) In Thor-#94- with just a slight pressure from Thor’s little finger he toppled leaning Tower of Pisa; B) in Thor-#95, Thor easily ripped apart the door of a special constructed safe that could resist a Ton (2,000 lbs.) of TNT; C) Thor sculpted a hammer from an Alien Tank by compressing together Tons of the Armor plating-Thor-#281, and tossed a Giant Alien Tank a significant distance as if were just a simple toy-Avengers-#219; D) Thor towed away a broken Jetliner full of passengers by flying it out of the Celestial stronghold in South America-Thor-#284. E) Thor, with his enormous strength, broke through wrap-around cables made of an alloy of Adamantiun-Thor-#309. F) Thor lifted and balanced a 40 plus story Building along with Cranes on top of the Building-Thor-#391; G) Thor towed the Entire Avengers Hydrobase-Avengers-#301, H) Thor with his strength closed a fissure that he created in the Planets crust, and then he proceeded by sealing Loki in it under millions Tons of Earth with the might of his limb-Avengers West Coast-#55; I) Thor sent an Alien with such physical force that he went literally flying through Earth’s Orbit and straight outside our Solar System-JIM-#90; J) Thor lifted the Midgard Serpent which girds the entire Earth and holds the Ocean in place-Thor-#272.
40) IMMORTALITY: Thor is an immortal-Nuff said.
Others: There are others powers Thor’s hammer has displayed over the years like, for instance, IMPLODING a STARGATE- Thor-#445 (no more SG-1, guys!!!), or creating a Magical Vortex that tightens when the enemy struggle’s away-Thor-#223. In fact, Thor, at one point, used to have the power of TIME, but, mysteriously (and for no reasons, whatsoever) Marvel decided to take that power away from Thor. Also, Thor has, voluntarily, denied himself of OTHER powers- see Annual#15. We might never know what these powers are. But, I guess this has to do with humility. After all, didn’t Odin turn Thor to a mortal for that same purpose? And hasn’t Thor stated to The Avengers during that Orka issue-Avengers-#149- that he wasn’t using his full powers all the time? I guess that’s, probably, the real reason Thor denied himself some of these powers. In conclusion, Thor’s full potential might never be known. In fact, in Thor-Annual-#11, Odin said to O’Gea the Earth goddess, “I seek an heir whose powers surpasses Asgard.” Thor being the son of a Sky-Father and the Earth goddess is much more than any Asgardian, and, therefore, his Life-Force must be, indeed, unbelievably powerful.
Also, From Lighting Strike the Co- Moderator of Thor’s Message Board:
Some of Thor’s feats: Journey Into Mystery #86-Uses his breath to cause hurricane force winds. Survives a cobalt bomb. JIM 90-Throws an alien with enough force that he’s sent flying from Earth to outside our solar system. JIM 92-Uses his fingers to gouge a Uru hammer out of a boulder of pure Uru. JIM 94-Thor flys so fast that he’s invisible. Crushes Uru shackles to dust. Causes earthquakes by striking the ground with lightning. JIM 115-Molecularly changes the Absorbing Man from one element to another with Mjolnir. JIM 131-Breaks the mind thrust (control) of the Rigelian Colonizers. Thor 185-Flies three times the speed of light. Thor 205-Thor defeats the hosts of Hel. Thor 222-Defeats Ares who’s strength had been tripled to 210 tons. Thor 242-Teleports the pyramid of Egypt with Mjolnir. Thor 272 & 379-Thor lifts one leg of the Midgard Serpent. Thor 281-Resists the gravity of a Neutron Star. Thor 324 & 416-Falls 500 feet and survives without any injury. Thor 327-Pulls the Midgard Serpent off of Midgard with a fishing pole. Thor 387-Survives a bomb blast that destroys a planet. Thor 388-(With Belt of Strength and Iron gauntlets) Hits the Celestial Exitar with Mjolnir with enough force that it reduces nearby mountians to rubble and tears open a hole in Exitar’s body. Thor uses his Godforce blast to crack open Exitar’s brain dome. Thor 391-Holds up a skyscraper while dizzy from inhaling gas. Thor 400-Creates a whirlwind so big and powerful that it knocks out Surtur. Thor 407-Uses Mjolnir to absorb the energy of a Rigellian “Null Bomb” capable of destroying a galaxy. Thor 414-Beats Ulik who’s strength had been increased a thousandfold. Thor 428-Rearranges his molecules after being phased into the ground by Shadowcat and frees himself. Uses his reflexes to to stop a telepathic bolt fired at him by Phoenix. Those are just some of his awesome feats.
Ernest…..
And what proof do you have that Superman and Doomsday didn’t die? I told you, Superman came back due to a few different factors that allowed him to come back from the dead. Doomsday came back because of his healing factor, but he DID die. He’s died at least three times discounting the various times explained in his origin. And you’re not quite right on Doomsday’s origin. The same equipment that caused Kryptonians to end-up the way they did was due to the equipment left-over from the experiments that created Doomsday, but it was not from the same experiments. Doomsday killed the scientists. Also, I believe the baby that Doomsday was started from had been alien to Krypton.
And your argument for Silver Surfer is quite poor. You originally made such a big deal BECAUSE Silver Surfer’s a matter manipulator. Thor can do that as well, though hasn’t been nearly as established as Surfer. And you’re going to argue that Surfer can defeat Thor BECAUSE of the Power Cosmic? How about go by actual feats of Surfer, not that he has the Power Cosmic? He has knocked Thor out on one occasion, though that’s the only win he has to my knowledge.
You are the first I’ve ever heard of for Hercules having increasing strength. This has never showed the times Thor and Hercules arm-wrestled to try to determine who’s stronger, nor did either seem to get the advantage when brawling. Where has it actually been STATED this happens? NOT ONE THING I have ever read, from comics to statements from others to any bio has even implied this, let alone actually shown it.
And while Superman can keep-up with Flash, there’s a bigger difference than milliseconds. Sometimes Flash leaves Superman in the dust, actually. And you’ve given no real argument that Superman should be able to tap into the Speed Force. Like I said before, the Speed Force chooses who gets it. Not because one’s fast enough to get it. How is it a good idea? Sure, Superman can do a few interesting things with his speed out-side of speed-blitzing, but why should Superman tap into the Speed Force?
And you’re also wrong on Captain Marvel. It was shown that the Power Of Zeus increases his other abilities, and Captain Marvel himself has stated that he has the strength of Atlas as well as Hercules. Wonder Woman is stronger than Hercules, and Captain Marvel has demonstrated to be stronger than Wonder Woman. Would seem kinda odd for him to be if he was ONLY as strong as Hercules, huh? I believe Captain Marvel has also demonstrated to be faster than Wonder Woman, who has the speed of Hermes, so the same speed as Mercury. And Captain Marvel has also directed the Power Of Zeus to only increase one attribute before. He was able to direct it to increase solely his speed to keep-up with an out-of-control Flash, and nearly died because his invulnerability was so reduced that his body was barely able to withstand the force.
So, yeah. I guess you don’t know too much.
There is no question that Thor has MORE powers. No one disputes that. But really, besides magic, which of Thor’s powers can HURT Superman? Big whoop. So he can shoot lightning. Even if he hits Kal-El with it, what’s that supposed to do to a guy who can survive inside a Black Hole? The only Marvel character who could probably beat Superman is the Silver Surfer. If that guy went all out he could probably just re-arrange Superman’s molecules and make him into space dust.
Thor wins. Case closed.
This is an interesting point. Does anyone in that comic book ever say that the book itself weighs an infinite amount? I was always under the impression that Superman had actually lifted something that literally weighed infinity (as stupid as that is). Now actually looking at the scan, I’m not so sure either.
I guess that’s what I get for not looking at the scan myself. Lots of Superman fans have thrown that feat in my face, now it seems it needs to be analyzed a little further. I”m sure Delta has some thoughts on this.
Steve…..
I’m actually going through Pete’s posts now and responding to them, just going to do them all in one comment. So it’s taking me a while since it’s a lot to go through and I’m not doing it all straight through, stopping and doing other things while I keep the text saved. And I was going to get to that controversy when I got to it, but since you yourself asked I decided to just respond.
Since I’ve already seen it numerous times, I haven’t checked the links to the scans that Alberto posted, so I do not know whether he posted the feat’s entirety or not. But in the scans, it’s specifically stated that the book contains an infinite number of pages occupying the same space. I’ve told this before. Obviously since the number of pages is infinity, that would equal infinite mass, so infinite weight. Probably really confusing if you misread it or just look at what’s happening and think, “Why the fuck are BOTH Superman AND Captain Marvel struggling to lift a book?”
That’s why it holds “infinite information” because it has an infinite number of pages.
Delta: adding an infinite number of numbers does NOT always equal infinity. As I stated, if I add infinite halves of previous numbers I only GET 1!!!
So 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/16+ 1/32 …. OUT TO INFINITY = 1.
Not even a large number. IT only equals ONE !
So by adding an infinite number of numbers, we get an answer of ONE.
This is but one example. So it really depends on how much each page weighs. Since that’s not stated, we don’t know if the book has infinite weight or not.
Also, we don’t know what portion of the book Superman and Captain Marvel each lifted.
One question:
If Superman can lift INFINITE weight, why does he need Captain Marvel’s help to lift the book?
1/2 of infinity = infinity.
So if Superman can lift infinite weight, he shouldn’t even need Captain Marvel. Yet he does. This implies the book does not weigh infinity.
EXCELLENT point, Steve. That’s really all the proof you need that Superman did NOT lift infinite weight!
Now, here’s some more proof Superman’s strength is not infinite. There was an issue a while back where Superman was shown on the cover, towing the Earth using some sort of harness, and it was obvious that it was a terrible strain on him. The harness he was provided with (by some aliens, IIRC) negated most of the mass of the planet, so that he even had a chance to move it. The Earth is 6.6 sextillion tons (1 sextillion = 10 to the 21st), so even a tiny fraction of that wold be enormous. It was not stated that he was just able to shove it out of the way. I forget some of the details of the story, but I think he only moved the Earth a short distance, not like clear into another solar system.
On Earth itself he lifted several acres worth of real estate, Superman wanted to move it to a place where he could examine it at his leisure. So he put it into orbit. Significantly, he remarked to himself that things seemed lighter when he was flying with them than when he first lifted them off the ground.
LMAO Rick, you actually think that anything in your favor has been proven? You think bringing-up an infinite number of fractions can fail to equal infinity proves anything? We’re talking about the mass of matter, not a mathematical equation. Nothing at all has been proven. How about you attempt to prove that an infinite number of grams does not equal infinite weight?
As to your examples, I know the second one you brought-up. Too bad for you Superman wasn’t flying when the book was lifted. And that example is from early Post-CRISIS. For the first example you provided, I’ll need much more detail. A HUGE problem with people debating against Superman is their utter ignorance. Superman has been established to naturally become more powerful over time even without an explicit power-up. I’ve shown this before. Many examples people bring-up to try and “prove” their point is from when Superman was weaker than he is currently. For example, for him to just become more powerful over time, the first time he physically touched the sun, he was hurt fairly badly just by skirting the surface, and came to the conclusion he wasn’t hurt worse than he was due to the extra solar energy he got. The first time he was actually IN the sun a couple years or so later, still before his first power-up, the sun was turned RED due to Eradicator. So even if the red sun isn’t draining him, he’s not getting that extra boost of solar energy that helped keep him from more serious injury the first time he touched it. As to after Superman’s first out-right power-up, he fought VERY evenly with Lobo and was surprised how well he was doing. Then when he punched Lobo hard enough to knock him into orbit, he noticed his knuckles weren’t even sore, saying he must be more powerful than he previously was. Then he got the air knocked out of him and started to worry, but then realized he wasn’t losing consciousness, and thought he might not need to breath, and then again saw it as another example of he has become more powerful. Then he easily grabbed, broke the forward momentum, and threw a space ship he stated was the size of a small moon, and noted he wondered if before, he would have even been able to grab and stop it, let alone with ease. And that example was about 15 years ago.
So really, I’m going to need a lot more than just your somewhat vague example to try to prove your point, as I don’t know how powerful Superman was relative to now, or any special circumstances that could have been involved to give him difficulty when he normally would not.