The Mighty Thor and Superman are the heavy-hitters of Marvel and DC respectively, each of them arguably the most powerful hero in their respective universes. So its natural that this is without question the most discussed versus debate amongst comic book fans. No other versus battle comes close to being talked about as much than this one. Try to start a “Superman vs Thor” thread on any forum and the first response is sure to be: “Not this again”.
Some of you may remember our “Top 10 Most Powerful Superheroes” list that we released a while back, where we made the controversial claim that Thor was the most powerful superhero of all time (Superman coming in at number three on that list). Months later we are still receiving emails either agreeing with us, or flaming us for that decision. Many fans cite Superman’s speed as the deciding factor in any fight between the two behemoths. Other emails claim that Thor’s magical powers would be enough to stop the man of steel in his tracks. So, the natural question is, do we still stand by our claim that Thor is more powerful than Superman? The answer is still “yes.” In this article we’ll break down the seven most common arguments and give you our take on them.
1. Super Strength
The claim has often been made that Superman is stronger than Thor. Many times on versus forums threads this claim is accepted as a given by both sides of the debate. We don’t concede that the Man of Steel is physically stronger than the god of thunder though. Thor has performed feats such as lifting the World Serpent, and once hurled the Odinsword, an enormous mystical blade, through a Celestial! Thor has also single-handedly matched the strength of the Hulk on numerous occasions (the Marvel Universe’s strongest character). Not only that but Thor is capable of entering into a state known as the “Warrior’s Madness”, which will temporarily increase his strength tenfold. Some of these feats have no true equivalent in the DC universe. We think at the very least, the two character’s physical strength is equal.
2 . Super Speed
This is Superman’s one true advantage in this fight. Superman is fast. We’re talking warp speed fast. We’re talking once around the entire planet and back before you can blink fast. You could easily make the argument that Thor would be lucky if he even saw Superman before he got pounded. But is Thor as slow as everyone seems to think? Unknown to many DC fanboys Thor can throw his hammer at the speed of light (See Thor#140, Thor#274). He can also swing it at TWICE the speed of light (Journey Into Mystery#102). In Thor -#393- it’s established that the speed of Thor’s hammer TRANSCENDS both TIME & SPACE. In addition Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds (see- FF#339, and Thor#166). And, most importantly, Thor could, visually, detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire- see Invaders#33- and Avengers-#281- when he saw the speedy Hermes. And yes, I do need a life). Now if we accept that Superman can move at 99% of the speed of light, and that Thor can swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, it stands to reason that big blue is in some trouble. It’s true that Thor doesn’t use his super speed abilities often, but how many times have you seen Superman not use his super speed when he should have?
3. Stanima
Who can take more punishment, Thor or Superman? This is a difficult question. Thor has withstood a blast from Asgardian Destroyer. Superman has withstood a direct hit from a nuclear bomb. Thor has taken everything the Hulk could dish out. Thor also once took a glancing hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion he fell from space (leaving a crater miles wide) to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Thor has also taken everything that Gladiator (an arguably more powerful version of Superman) could dish out. Both characters have come back from the dead a couple of times. In my mind this one is a draw. Both characters have approximately the same stanima. The difference is Superman has weaknesses (i.e. Kryptonite, Magic, and the fact he is powerless without yellow sunlight) whereas Thor pretty much doesn’t.
4. Magic
Even the most diehard Superman fan would concede that Thor’s magical abilities would be an advantage for Thor. First, I would like to note that just because an opponent can wield magic, it in no way guarantees a win over the last son of Krypton. Superman has defeated countless magic users in the past, and so I have no illusions that just because Thor has magic powers and a magic hammer that he would automatically own Superman. That being said magic is just as lethal against Supes as kryptonite. Superman has no defense against it, and it can affect him greatly. Superman getting pounded by Mjolnir is the same as you and me getting pounded by a normal hammer. And consider the guy who’s swinging it. It’s Thor. The god of thunder. Not only that, but Thor’s lightning is magical too. Remember that just a single lightning bolt is equivalent to 15,000,000 volts of electricity and could travel over 224,000 miles an hour. The clear advantage here goes to Thor.
5. Super Powers
Before Thor inherited the Odinforce, the super powers of these two heroes were a little more even. Now there is absolutely no contest. Thor has a clear edge over Superman here. His magical hammer gives Thor the ability to control the weather, the ability to fly; energy projection and absorption; dimensional apertures; matter manipulation, as well as the most powerful of his offensive powers: the God Blast, and the Anti-Force. Superman is no push over in this department either, with the already mentioned super strength, super speed, as well as heat vision, x-ray vision, enhanced senses, and the ability to blow hurricane force winds from his mouth. But what is that compared to being able to summon an actual hurricane? Not only that but with the Odinforce Thor was then capable of feats such as reconstructing the Earth’s Moon, willing the Asgardian monster Mangog into nothingness, and by focusing his entire power into a hammer throw that even decapitated a Desak-occupied Asgardian Destroyer. Having accepted his heritage as the son of the earth goddess Gaea, he has recently been shown to be capable of opening chasms in the earth itself, and who knows what other abilities he’ll be displaying now that he’s done that.
6. Superman beat Thor in the Avengers / DC Crossover
I don’t want to spend much time on this one. Most fans of comics know how much weight we should give to crossovers. Besides, I personally have no doubt that Superman would beat Galactus in a crossover. He’s DC’s flagship character after all. Enough said on that one.
7. Thor has Thousands of Years of Combat Experience
This is a common argument used by Thor fans to claim that Thor would take down Superman. It seems fairly obvious. If I somehow gained super powers and a Viking Warrior somehow gained the exact same or nearly equivalent powers, most people would put their money on the Viking if we fought each other. Now imagine the Viking warrior was thousands of years older than me, and had been using his powers for all those thousands of years to battle trolls, giants, demons, robots, aliens, and gods, and I have only been using my powers for 20-30 years. It seems clear to me that the Viking Warrior god has a clear cut advantage over me in a fight. Again advantage Thor.
It seems obvious to me that Thor has a clear advantage over Superman in a fight. I don’t think that Thor is so powerful that there is no way that Superman could ever defeat him. But I believe that the majority of the time Thor would beat Superman in a one on one fight, assuming its not a fight to the death. If it is a fight to the death, then I think Thor would almost invariably win. So there you have it, the definitive answer to one of the most talked about and controversial debates in comic book nerdom. Brought to you by your pals at Old-Wizard.com.
Well, if it’s about which character sucks less, Thor wins in a landslide. I can’t stand Superman, and his fans are such babies. They don’t like a challenge. He should just always win and everything should always just be perfect.
bull crap dude! superman would trash thor all day long!
thor is dumb and cant save his own but against the enemy that is why he always calls backup in every thor comic! On the other hand Superman can actually beat the enemy by hiself! GET REAL THOR SUCKS DUDE!!!!!!!!
As both a Thor and Superman fan, I have to say, “Right On!” Thor is the coolest character ever and would totally thrash Superman. I have always been annoyed when Thor is thrown into a comic and then beaten by someone like the Hulk. This is comic writing at its worst. Thor without his hammer is in the top ten! When you add in his hammer the guy in unstoppable. I have been really glad of late as it seems that Thor is finally getting the respect that he deserves as the baddest dude out there. I liked him better with a beard though.
Ummmm, I think we are all leaving one thing out. Now I understand that this is the comic universe and all, but we can still have a little reality in this. With that being said, and having no particular bias towards Marvel or DC, but Thor would trump the good old Red, Blue and Gold; simply because Thor is a GOD and Superman is not. I’m not quite sure how anyone could think an alien that is only this powerful in our solar system, could defeat a GOD. It’s that simple. Superman vs. Yahweh…Yahweh wins, Superman vs Allah…Allah wins, Superman vs Osiris…Osiris wins. Get the picture. Aliens don’t beat GOD’s or at least not where I come from. Superman would give him a run for his money, because his powers are GODlike, but a GOD he is not. Does this arguement sound logical?
no
Oh well, I tried to enlighten you mere mortals….
Great article and I totally agree. Really, wouldn’t Thor just have to drop his hammer on Superman’s foot to trap him in place?
-Mat N.
http://www.TheNiftyNerd.com
I posted a link to your article on THE UNIQUE GEEK list serv. It’s created quite a bit of conversation. If you want to check it out, click here.
The Irredeemable Shag
http://onceuponageek.com
1 Everyone that cares so much about this stuff should get a real life not based on comics.
2 I don’t want a real life so I’m gonna give my opinion:
– Two characters powers that do not belong to the same universe should be measured by the figures, the fans and finally their powers in the comics. Let me exemplifie that. If Marvel and DC were to decide which heroes to keep their series while some be taken to a side, Superman will keep the store shelves with something, but what would Marvel do? Personally I do not think they will keep the Thor.
And for all those not die hard comic fans, they probably think The caped guy lifting a green car in Action Comics #1 would win every battle he faces.
look i am a collector of both SUPERMAN AND THOR,and i love both charaters.WE ALL KNOW that writers can make any given charater the winner over another at any given time.writers have there favorites too.I think its cool that superman does have weaknesses,its how you overcome that weakness that makes you or breaks you.THOR is a GOD awesome,SUPERMAN is a man an alien man(without yellow sun) awesome.ONE IS A GOD THE OTHER IS NOT.APPLES,ORANGES.OH by the way i am a big baby when it comes to to my heroes especially superman because he has overcome any challenge thrown at him win or lose.
I agree that Superman is DC flagship superhero and to have Thor beat him in a crossover would be a big blow to DC. But Thor did say that he’s got Superman figured out and the result would not be the same.
If this was a fair fight without any concern for comic flagship and who’s more popular Thor would definately own Superman. If this was a fight to the death we know Thor is more than capable of killing Supe. While Superman on the other hand would hesitate.
Good Review.
This is what i havebeen saying all along.A TRUE SUPERHERO WOULD NOT KILL. THOR WOULD,hulk,The silver surfer came to detroy our planet…. billions of lives there. That is no hero.Killing is no measure of a hero… EVER.
Yes Thor is smart,but Supermans intelligence far exceeds Thors by a long shot.
Everyone who is intelligent realizes Superman is the strongest. Remember, in the series DC vs Marvel? Superman dusted everybody! And I mean, EVERYONE!! At the very end…He destroyed the Hulk. I think, However…The Mighty Thor would most likely last longer than anyone else.
The author of this topic says, Thor is “thousand” years old experience… Well Superman “Kal-El” civilization is from “EON” far advance than of Earth… And “EON” is somewhere in the hundred “BILLION” years…
And he claims Thor could swing his magical hammer at twice the speed of light… On the other hand on one DC comics showing Superman moving over 1,000 times the speed of light, then the narrator adds Superman could go even faster at “INFINITE” speed if he wants to…
Here is that same “Enlightened, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Immortal, One-Million years Old” Superman who has no weakness… He’s next to GOD, Only GOD is more powerful than him: http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk209/anselmoe/SupeP-GoldForm.gif
That Superman could literally “UTTER” both Thor and his father Odin, along with all their most powerful enemies the Celestial, including their Asgard world “OUT of their Existence” on a whims of a simple “UTTERANCE” “BE-GONE!!!”, and they would be all gone as if they never existed.
Thor’s MAGICS; magical Mjöllnir hammer; nor his Odin Force would mean ANT jack “NOTHING” to that One-Million years old (gold-form) ENLIGHTENED, OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENCE, OMNIPRESENCE, IMMORTAL Superman…
Thor is “NOT Omnipotent”; “NOT Immortal”; “NOT Omnipresence”; “NOT Omniscience” and is certainly “NOT Enlightened”… SUPERMAN WINS Clear and Simple on this one…
ok..i’m thinking that maybe or surely the authors of this site are thor fans..bigbig thor fans. cough cough..biased..cough cough..ahem. then again, superman is one silly character out of the pages of comics. i mean the guy has everything a hero can have which makes him boring. if the guy is sooo powerful, then he should win in almost any fight. sometimes their creators lack creativity in developing a character. or maybe whatever man.
omnipotent superman is the most boring character ever..there’s no story you could make out of that character if he’s that powerful..sheesh
THIS HOW THE FIGHT WOULD GO
“You are strong mortal..but you cannot defeat the Son Of Odin” [Thor]
“I dont know who you are…or where you came from, but im taking you down” [Superman]
Superman hits Thor into a near by building..only to see Thor’s hammer come flying outa the smoke and debris…hitting Supe’s into another near by building.
“I can see thou Kryptonian is very powerful…and a fight between the god of thunder and thee would rip thy planet to shreds…I shall take thee to another realm wear we both can settle thy feud” [Thor]
“Your not taking me anywhere” [Superman] flying out of the rubble at Thor with bullet like speed!
“I SAY THEE SHAL HALT” Thor calling on heavenly lightning to strike down the man of steel in his tracks…as the dazed Superman is on the ground, regrouping. Thor opens up a dimension to another world and grabs superman by the cape and throws him in.
“Now foe…lets finish thee fight with the Son Of Odin…here, where we both can unleashed our heavenly might…without pulled punches” [Thor]
Superman looks around him, only to find himself on a desolate RED STAR planet.
“Oh know…im powerless here” [Superman]
“Then I guess thee fight is over” [Thor]
Thor gives Superman a thump on the head to knock out the powerless Kryptonian, and returns him to his fellow justice league..once he realizes that Superman is this world greatest hero, he apologizes on the behalf of all of the Gods of Valhalla for his miss guided actions..and curses the name Loki, swearing to get his vengeance for his his fouls tricks…and then he opens a space portal…he has heard that the Hulk is loose in New York AGAIN fighting the Avengers
“This warrior was a lil challenge for the God Of Thunder…but thy has fought the Hulk before…and I fear he won’t be as obliging.”[Thor]
It depends on whos writing it , But i would sat ,…. THOR
It depends on whos writing it , But i would say ,…. THOR
First of all Thor is not a GOD! READ! KNOW YOUR HISTORY? THOR ACTUALLY DIED IN LEGEND! Also look up Marvels decription of Thor’s powers in Marvel Comics- Wikipedia. In Bold letters it says Thor is NOT IMMORTAL!
Comics have show Thor beating Surfer. And Thor has lost to the HULK. Superman beat the Hulk. But Surfer can beat Hulk too? But thats because Surfer can drain his gramma radiation from the Hulk or the Hulk imo would give Surfer a run for his money too!
Honestly those three are fairly equal and the fight can go either way. But if it ever came down to it I see Superman winning but not because he is more powerful but he is the overall biggest Hero.
Thor is a God..and he is immortal b cuz he eats from the tree which grants all Asgardians immortal life..and he died during Ragnarok…the war that kills all of the Asgardians(read norse mythology yo)
so…yeh I dont know wut u get at with everything ur saying
oh heres something from MARVEL.COMSon of Asgard and Son of Midgard
Ages ago, Odin, lord of the gods of Asgard, desired a child of both Asgard and Midgard (Earth), and therefore sought out and wooed Gaea, the eldest goddess of the Earth. Gaea gave birth to Thor in a small cave in Norway, and Odin took him to be raised in Asgard by his wife, Frigga.
The young Thor grew up alongside his step-brother Loki, who was always jealous of Thor, the favored son. Thor excelled in power and popularity, and on his eighth birthday, Odin had the hammer Mjolnir created, enchanting it with powerful magic. He decreed that Mjolnir would be presented to Thor when he had been proven a worthy warrior, and Thor spent the next several years training and performing heroic deeds. Indeed, eight years later, Odin gave the hammer to Thor, declaring him to be the greatest warrior in Asgard.
Thor traveled to Earth for the first time in the Ninth Century A.D., in response to his worship among the Vikings. Thor reveled in his worship, leading many in battle and extolling the way of the warrior. Years later, a set of Vikings killed innocent inhabitants of a Christian monastery in Thor’s name. In shock and disillusion, Thor cut himself off from his worshippers and returned to Asgard. The Asgardian religion would never be as fervent, eventually dying out completely over the centuries.
PROOF he is a god…and he could beat Superman b cuz he is better then Supes at every level
he has moved at the speed of light and he can throw his hammer at the speed of light
on strength I would make them equals
powers..well Supes has the laser eyes…but Thor hammer can absorb energy…so that wont help him
fighting skills…well lets see…Thor has been fighting for AEONS..supes…bout ten or fifteen yrs…and even so, its just straight up brawling
and oh yeh Thor has magic…like A LOT OF IT! and with Odin force he could kill the whole justice league
remember Odin force once created a galaxy…yeh…he is God, so this fight is not fair
and pls dont mention the cross overs…those things are bias..and yes Thor has been beaten but he has beaten him too..so yeh
So, I’ve been reading this website. About twice now, just got here from google to snag a picture…and I noticed a few things. First, and foremost? I am a Thor fan. Never read a comic, but the actual Thor. Y’know, real life history and such? Second, I -love- Superman getting his face crushed, Doomsday and all..
Alright, I’ll start on Thor:
Pay attention to History -and- Comics. Thor, like all Asgard Gods, is mortal. Odhin was Mortal, and he needed to die so Thor could take on Jormungandr(sp?) The Midgaard Serpent (Child of Loki, World Serpent ect.)
Another thing. Mjolnir in itself, has a conscious. Not supreme intelligence or anything but it has a conscious according to Legend. So, in any case…if Thor has Mjolnir while taking on Superman. It’s 2v1 fight, hands down. End of story. Thor also, as I’ve seen, is capable of taking ‘godly’ hits. (I don’t know about any of you, but throw Reality into it; Hulk’s punch is -godly-.)
In Asgard Legend, Thor also has to -kill- the World Serpent, which, as far as I can tell…is bigger than anything Superman has ever done. Not busting on him, just adding up historical/comic crossover victories. Also take into consideration that Thor gets thrashed by his brother, Loki. Sooo…if Superman was fighting Thor? Loki would probably give him the upper hand. Somehow, someway.
But, it comes down to the simplest human nature fact…
Thor will kill you.
Superman, will not.
Now, for Superman:
Superman is a God (‘God’ being a loose term, both for Superman AND Thor. Thor is mortal. Let it go.) Superman is a God, Doomsday beat him around the world and then the great Boyscout turned himself into a comet, and killed Doomsday and supposedly himself. Then he came back. (This is about the equivilent of Marvel’s Wolverine’s regeneration, or Juggernaut) While in our sun’s rays, he is a God. I repeat myself, for the Thor fans. God. God. God. Now, like with Loki, Superman has some pretty bad ass villains. (Luthor, Darkside ect.) Who would probably, more than likely, do something to make Thor win (and then get their asses handed to them BY Thor) Another point, is Superman is very intelligent, but he’s duped by Batman. That’s not saying Thor is smarter, it’s just saying this isn’t a Highschool Spellingbee. It’s a battle. Superman is capable of killing Thor, hands down. In fact, they’re probably both capable of killing eachother in the first thirty seconds of the fight, however, Superman has one firm advantage over Thor: He can ‘play dead’ and regenerate (Unless he’s pummeled to death).
Thor (don’t know if he would know this, or how) also has one clear advantage over Superman: He can bring people to other dimensions with him. Y’know, like one without a yellow Sun. The key factor in Superman’s god-hood.
Take all of that, and Reality into consideration.
Also take into consideration that either way? One wins over the other in either Universe.
-Raelic
Forgot to mention something, both Superman and Thor can be/have been, cloned.
So…whoever clones them owns them both.
Props to? Loki and Luthor.
-Raelic
OK I SEE RETARDED ANSWERS EVERYWHERE… SOME EDDY DUDE SAID SUPES NEVER CALLS FOR HELP
WHAT THE HELL U THINK THE JUSTICE LEAGUE WAS??? THERES TIME WHERE SUPERMAN CALLS HIS ARCH RIVAL FOR HELP LEX LUTHOR SO THIS WAS A DUMB COMMENT
ALSO PPL SAYIN SUPES INTELLEGENCE WHAT INTELLEGENCE HIS FATEHR WAS THE SMART ONE NOT HIM WHEN HAS HE DEMONSTRATED INTELLEGENCE ANY WHERE?? WOULD YOU PLPL SAY SUPERMAN IS SMARTER THAN BATMAN IF U DO THEN YOU REALLY ARE NOTHING BUT FAN BOYS
IF SUPERMAN WAS SO SMART HE WOULD BEAT LEX LUTHOR AND BRAINIAC WITH EASE BUT HE CANT KNO Y CAUSE LEX IS 8tH LEVEL INTELLECT AND BRAINIAC IS 12TH… SO YOU TELL ME HOW SMART SUPERMAN IS
ANOTHER THING LOL AT troy Your comment is being moderated. We are currently destroying the illusion of free speech to which you hold so dear…we are in control.”
MADE ME CHUCKLE
ur all idiots, read the damn comics surfer ends up being a good guy and superman kicks the shit out of thor several times. he was always meant to be the best. also, he has lost before but he’s such a g he always knows how to get the fuck back up
SO if IF THOR is not a GOD…………why is he called the god of thunder, or the norse gods. Oh maybe i have been READING IT WRONG, AND IT HASBEEN SAYING THOR MORTAL OF THUNDER,OF THE NORSE MORTALS.HE IS A GOD A GOD A GOD A GOD.Oh by the way THOR IS A GOD.
i like thor …but overall superman has better powers…
superman defeated thor in the DC universe…like someone else pointed out….powers differ in different universe.just like flash lost his powers in marvel universe………thor’s only advantage is the hammer…i think the only reason superman wins is cuz superman is all DC gots..
so their has not been a real fight between the two where both are 100 percent…
im a superman and thor fan just because i know if used the right way these characters can be way more popular.However you cant use the hulk as an example to measure thor’s powers because officially (not fan based)superman has not gone at it with the hulk so you need something or someone that they both have face if that hasn’t happened yet than to bad you cant use that arguement..and as for the viking comment superman isn’t a viking for anyone to put there chances on weather hes been around for two minutes or 10 decades..besides vikings just use brut force …not tactics..and your right he needs to stop getting trashed by hulk! don’t forget about the fact that superman has all the knowledge through the crystal’s
and raelic dude let it go…marvel has changed thor’s appearance so what you read in norse mythology of thor is not the same as what the marvel universe image of him is said stan lee himself! second now your just talking about the actual cartoon movie where superman fought doomsday but if you read the novel!!!! the man of tomorrow!!! any way put superman prime in there and lets see what happens
ur all idiots, read the damn comics surfer ends up being a good guy and superman kicks the shit out of thor several times. he was always meant to be the best. also, he has lost before but he’s such a g he always knows how to get the fuck back up
——————
WHAT COMICS CROSSOVERS ALL CROSSOVERS ARE FAN BIASED U CANT GO ON CROSSOVER COMICS SRY N E WAYS THOR WINS SUPES LOSES VERY CLOSE FIGHT THOUGH
@ troy ,wrong, thor and superman only fought once and superman barly beat him, maybe you should read the damn comics
@ ZACH THOR IS MARVEL SUPERMAN IS DC
THERE ARE NO “REAL” COMICS FOR IT ITS ALL FAN BASED BIASED BULLSHIT
Thor is a god. That’s final. The only reason why he died is because of Ragnarok, a legendary battle between all gods. But let’s keep mythology out of here.
Anyway, there is only one superhero that can beat both of them, hands down. That is Master Chief. He’s got adamantium bones after augmentation! Master Chief is 1337 and will own all. But Leonidas of 300 will own him. And on the top of the food chain lies Chuck Norris and Mr. T.
LMAO AT MR X
I feel so sorry for all you fanboys, it seems that a legitimate argument to Supermans abilty to defeat anything is just to much for you to handle.
Just accept for once that DCs overpowered uber hero can be crushed.
…………………………………….Pwned……………………………………………
Well i just bought and watch the new marvel video that was released on Jan.27Th. Thor verses Hulk/Thor verses Wolverine,and let me tell you, as much as i love Thor.There was nothing to love about this.Thor could not do a thing against the hulk.I can truly see why superman is far more powerful.there is no need for me to go into detail. you just have to see for yourself(this should and will piss off all thor fans.For anyone to rank Thor #1 after showing is laughable,and should be ashamed of themselves especially the ones that made the top ten most powerful heroes list. hell i think wolverine in the next part of this movie did better than Thor.AS a fan of both THOR AND SUPERMAN…….u know what………. I truly cant say no more.
i not sure what all the thor fan are thinking to begin with thor is a god yes that ture while superman is only the regular superhero. but have u forgot one thing that hulk has once kill almost everyone in marvel universe including most of the god too if u said that regular person cant kill a god then how can ironman and hulk kill several god? that should ans why superman stand the chance of besting thor and ok next thing i think the author of this article is fan of thor also that why he put everything that superman has the advantage as equal to thor that stupid thor can barely stand a hit from hulk while superman can just stand and let hulk punch him all day long and he wouldnot move an inch that how strong superman is and once superman can push the whole planet back to it place so what do u think of that and about the speed thor can go anyplace in a sec but superman can go anyplace less than a blink of the eye and how fast a regular person blink the eye think abt this too so i dont know how good thor in detecting the speedy enemy but i dont think he can detect superman or have enough time to react and even thor can swing his hammer faster than speed of light but superman can move faster than speed of light too that the real deal and i think the author of this article doesnt have much information of superman power too superman may have weakest against that stupid kryptonite or whatever but his source of energy is from the sun and he has overcome the kryptonite several time by gather all his energy from the sun and no matter what kind of damage he get he still would be able to recover from it by the sun so if thor want to beat superman first he has to destroy the sun and that not possible but if superman wanted to beat thor just make thor drop the hammer and that game over for thor because thor might be one of the top strength character but he is nothing compare to hulk and hulk is nothing compare to superman so if hand to hand superman will beat him for sure without any qns but that hammer make it seem impossible not only for superman even the top 10 character combine their strength because that hammer is indestructible and second it can do anything that thor want so i hate to admit it and even though i am superman fan if the hammer still in thor hand he will stronger than superman but if i have to rate thor and superman strength it will be thor(with hammer) 100 while superman(without kryptonite of course lol) 95 because superman is lacking of magic power but mainly with all his current ability there no one can beat him already so it pointless to have magic anyway lol even so i dont think thor and superman want to fight against each other it all depend on the writer anyway so just stop argue man it pointless lol unless u work for either marvel or DC lol(btw sorry my eng are bad lol)
OK, time for me to respond…..First, shouldn’t this not be a battle if Thor’s possessing the late Odin’s power? Even if he’s sharing it with Loki, that still puts him in the realm of the Skyfathers, which is just below the likes of Celestials and Galactus and Imperiex and The Spectre and the like. That’s like having Superman fight Parallax one-on-one. If it were Superman Prime from DC ONE MILLION then we could discuss that, as Superman Prime was said to be far more powerful than Superman One Million, and that guy did stuff like, when he was so weak he couldn’t fly, lost his super speed, senses were severly weakened, and lost his heat and force vision, still jumped from Earth to the Moon…..then punched through 830something CENTURIES of time. And Superman Prime had a Green Lantern Power Ring, too.
But I’ll argue Superman VS Classic Thor, since that’s who I think of when I think of Thor.
Strength: Actually, Superman IS stronger than Thor. Kurt Busiek(or however his name’s spelled) had stated it was agreed on with editors that Superman was stronger than Thor. And that Thor lifting the World Serpent thing seems to be a bit over-hyped. Wasn’t it that magick ship that was actually lifting it? Thor was merely holding the line that was “reeling” it in? And it was in another dimensional existince or something. So that’s one of those metaphysical feats that can’t really be measured. Well, to counter that, Superman and Wonder Woman slowed-down The Spectre’s conciousness or Spectre him/it’s self. It was a struggle, there was two of them, and they only slow it down, but this is also one of those metaphysical feats that can’t really be measured as it was supposed to be the weight of eternity. For another one of those metaphysical feats that can’t be measured, he was used to turn the gears to Maggeddon’s machinery. The “Endless Millwheels.” And Maggeddon dwarfed the Earth/moon. Now as to the throwing the Odinsword through a Celestial…..it didn’t really do anything, did it? Yeah, went through, but didn’t it fail to acomplish anything? For moving massive objects in an impressive manner, Superman threw, beyond Earth’s gravity, while standing on the planet, a ship that was four times the size of an aircraft carrier. As for Thor matching strength with Hulk, well, Superman did that too. Yeah, it wasn’t the Savage Hulk, but I believe Professor Hulk was stronger at base than most incarnations of Hulk, and had time to get mad/psyched/whatever. Also, saying Hulk is Marvel’s strongest character? REALLY? Stronger than Galactus? Eternity? Anyways to be more serious, Hulk’s strength is inconsistent, and we all know that. One time he and Namor barely restrained Thor while each held an arm and had leverage, and another time he beat Thor nearly to death. Or at least bad enough that Thor couldn’t get back up, on his own, for some time. Comparing anyone facing Hulk as an example needs the details as to why they’re fighting, if anything’s got Hulk particularly motivated, and what incarnation of Hulk it is. If there was a fight between Wonder Woman with the Gauntlet Of Atlas(that let her literally beat a Doomsday clone, which was stated to be stronger than Superman, to DUST) and the gray Hulk that couldn’t get stronger and Wonder Woman nearly killed him, and I said, “Wonder Woman PWNS Thor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!111!1!11″ I would be called-out for lacking the circumstances. Also, Superman’s faced Doomsday, who’s FAR stronger than a calm Hulk and seems to get stronger too, who also has a degree of super speed along with other factors, so that counters Thor’s facing Hulk examples. And Thor’s Warrior’s Maddness? Superman can sun-dip to increase his strength. Yes, it’s rare for him to do, but it’s also rare for Thor to go into Warrior’s Maddness. And, I must again say, it was decided and agreed upon behind the scenes that Superman is stronger than Thor. Though I don’t think it’s by a massive margin, but they’re strength isn’t equal. It’s definately close enough that Thor can hold his own in a knock-down, drag-out, all-out brawl with the two only using strength, and it go on a while. But Superman is still stronger.
Speed: OK, Thor can throw Mjolnir at light speed and swing it at twice lightspeed? Is this a regular thing or were these very rare instances? And him sighting fast moving objects doesn’t tell me much. Artllery fire? Are you seriously comparing this to someone possessing Flash-level speed? Hermes could be a point if he could move at a percentage of lightspeed but that’s one example. And did he actually fight Hermes with both moving AND reacting at super speed? And yes, Superman doesn’t use his speed as often as he should when strength alone either won’t do the job or is barely enough, but he uses his speed much more often than Thor uses that stuff you mentioned. Also, Thor’s few instances I’ve seen of combat speed and reflexes aren’t anything that Spider-Man couldn’t out-do, even without Spider-Sense enhancing reflexes. And Spider-Man’s only about 100something Miles Per-Hour speed range. Superman was STATED by a member of the Flash Family to move at 99% of lightspeed. He’s also shown to go far faster than light, but that seems to be only when in space, where he has no atmosphere reducing the solar energy he absorbs. He also has several super speed feats, both combat and non-combat examples(though would be tasks at super speed that could translate to how fast he could fight hand-to-hand, like unpacking dozens of boxes to set-up an apartment in less than a second) that aren’t even him going the fastest he can, that far out-do anything Spider-Man can do. And Spider-Man’s noticably faster than Thor, in combat speed and reflexes. I don’t count Thor’s using Mjolnir to travel as examples for how he fast he would FIGHT and REACT. Green Lanterns can travel the universe in less than an hour with their Power Rings, but do you think they could react as fast as Flash? Plus, we don’t know just how much of Thor’s travel feats were from how fast Mjolnir can have him fly, and how much they were from Mjolnir’s space warping abilities. Now, if Thor could actually use Mjolnir to slow-down time and match Superman’s speed, like Ambrose Chase did in the PLANETARY/JLA cross-over(and yes, I know it’s not in continuity, but it’s a perfect example of slowing down local time to match someone with super speed), then you’ve got an arguement. But I remember hearing that when I think both the Avengers and Fantastic Four were dealing with Gladiator, Mister Fantastic had to create a time dialation device so they could actually fight Gladiator. Thor’s belt that was supposed to make him immune to the time dialation disappeared, but nobody comented on this, and someone stated the writer/artist probably forgot to draw the belt on Thor. But even if that wasn’t the case, it was Reed’s technology that caused the time dialation, not Thor. So, unless there’s an example of Thor using Mjolnir to slow-down time, I think it’s safe to say Superman has a massive advantage that he’d use more often than Thor would, even if he can slow-down local time to match Superman’s speed.
Stamina: Yeah, Thor and Superman both have insane showings of durability and endurance. Thor took a barrage from an armada that had enough combined firepower to destroy the Earth, Superman withstood something that was supposed to be the equivilent of “a million million nuclear bombs” or maybe it was “just” a million. Both have taken powerful energy blasts of various types(mystic energy, heat, concussive force, radiation, comicbook science Non-Conventional). Both have taken hits from nukes and explosions/forces equivilent to nukes. Both have survived in the sun(and while it’ll be argued that Superman’s POWERED by the sun, the first time he was in the outter-layers of the sun, it was turned RED, and though it hurt him, it didn’t kill him). Both have taken shots from some of their respective Universe’s strongest beings(Thor: Hercules, Hulk, an amped Silver Surfer…..Superman: Wonder Woman, Lobo, Captain Marvel, numerous Martians). Though I’ve got a list of examples that shows Superman’s level of durability is actually higher than his level of strength. But there’s a few things that should be mentioned to show why I think Superman’s got the durability edge on Thor. You look back at their fight in JLA/AVENGERS, and after Superman(an exhuasted Superman) wins, he gets “sucker-punched” by Iron Man’s Repulsars, knocked down by Wonderman, then beat, while on the ground, by Wonderman, Iron Man, She-Hulk, Vision, and Hercules(who’s as strong as Thor and is uses his Adamantine mace or however it’s spelled), for a bit before they’re stopped. And even though it very well could be my bias that has me say Superman STILL got-up before Thor and with less trouble, the fact that he DID get up about the same time as Thor, shows he’s just tougher. Thor had more time to recover than Superman, and hadn’t been beaten while on the ground. And yeah, they both had help to get-up. And if you discount JLA/AVENGERS, on two occasions Superman has failed to be injured to physical incapacitation by MYSTICAL blasts or explosions equvilent to nuclear detonations. And had not been taken-out by a nuke while he was literally sitting in Kryptonite.
Magick: Well, I’m glad it’s conceded that magick does not mean an automatic victory for Thor, but the author still seems to over-rate magick’s advantage against Superman. Yes, it was mentioned Superman’s beaten mystic users many times, everything from sorcerors to mystically powered foes to demons, angels and gods. But magick is NOT “just as lethal against Supes as Kryptonite.” Superman has no defense against magick, but then again neither does ANY hero or villain who’s powers don’t come at least partially from a magickal source. Superman’s about as defenseless against magick as Hulk, but we all know how well Thor’s mystical advantage is against Hulk the past 15 years….. I do think Mjolnir would hurt Superman more than Thor hitting Supes with a non-mystical hammer of similar durability, but no, it won’t hurt him just as much as a normal person being hit with a normal hammer. Discount JLA/AVENGERS all you want, but, last I checked, it WAS in continuity. Mjolnir did not mess-up Superman as bad as the author claims it would, and Superman even caught it when he was in a position that gave him the disadvantage at catching it. Superman’s also been hit by other mystic weapons. And if magick gives Thor that much of an advantage, then why has Superman not immediately lost every time, or at least the majority of times, to Wonder Woman, who’s close to Superman in strength, speed and durability and is a better fighter, or Captain Marvel, who’s even closer to matching Superman in strength if not his true equal? I know Captain Marvel once took-out Superman real quick, but, if I recall correctly, it was a sucker-punch, Captain Marvel amped his strength, and surronded his fists in mystic energy, and it didn’t even immediately knock Superman unconcious. That would be the equivilent to someone as strong as you under normal circumstances enhanced by PCP sucker-punching you with brass knuckles. And on the lightning, when was Thor’s lightning mystical? But even if it is, I don’t recall it taking Superman out(hurt him, but didn’t stop him) in JLA/AVENGERS, and even if you discount that, KINGDOM COME(if it was brought into continuity) had Superman take multiple Shazam “lightning bolts” which are actually a spell containing the power Captain Marvel has taking the form of lightning, and yeah, they hurt. But they didn’t stop Superman. He took multiple ones. There’s also various examples of Superman taking mystic energy, from Entrigan’s fire, to the whole fighting Blaze thing(mystic blasts from Blaze and immursion in mystic lava), two examples of an explosion or blast of magick energy equvilent to nukes, seven “Elder Gods” blasting the entire JLA(and Superman is the only one to get back up), the mage Disciple(who had been powered up by the “Elder Gods” who Zauriel, a literal Angel, said were older than Creation, to be on THEIR level, Superman was the only one in the final battle to withstand and over-come Disciple). And this isn’t even mentioning if Superman uses his speed, it’s almost equal to light. Light can travel over 180,000 Miles Per-SECOND. And the author actually understated the speed lightning can travel, but it still travels at about half the speed of light. BUT, at the level of speed Superman can move, lightning would move in slow motion to him. Oh and if Superman getting hit by Mjolnir would be the equvilent of a normal man getting hit by a regular hammer, and it being even worse since it’s Thor hitting Superman with Mjolnir, then I must counter this with one of Superman’s fights with the demon Entrigan. Entrigan hit Superman so hard, Superman went from Earth to the Moon(a distance of roughly 239,000 miles) in just seconds, and is uninjured. By the Mjolnir arguement, wouldn’t that be the equivilent of a normal person being hit hard enough to be knocked from Earth, beyond it’s gravitational pull, and travel well over 200,000 miles in just a few seconds? A normal person wouldn’t even make it to the upper-atmosphere. They’d basically be vaporized on impact.
Super Powers: This is why I concede that Thor’s more powerful than Superman, even Classic Thor without Odin’s power, but the problem is, Thor rarely uses half his abilities. And with Superman’s speed, strength, and durability advantages, that’s why I give Superman a clear majority, as much as 8 out of 10 times. Even if Thor used his other abilities more often, I’d give Superman a slight majority(6/10), as Superman uses his abilities beyond strength more quickly, and more often, than Thor does. Though Superman’s Heat Vision can hurt Thor, but this is the only ability(other than speed) that he has and Thor doesn’t that would be useful against Thor.
SUPERMAN BEAT THOR IN JLA/AVENGERS: You shouldn’t put weight into cross-overs? Well, how ELSE are they going to officially fight?!?!?!!!? Plus, it’s in continuity. But didn’t this site also use Superman beating Hulk twice in cross-overs as-to why Superman was placed higher than Hulk on the Top Ten Most Powerful list? So why do those count, but JLA/AVENGERS doesn’t?
Thor Has Thousands Of Years Of Combat Experience: Yeah, he does. And it sure doesn’t show. Superman’s hand-to-hand combat skills have shown to be more impressive. Superman’s actually shown some Martial Arts moves from time-to-time. Nothing amazing, but more than Thor. Aikido/Judo-style throws, preassure point attacks, kicks. Thor’s just punched, hit stuff with Mjolnir, and occasionally shown very basic wrestling take-downs. Superman’s also shown to have the better strategic/tactical mind. Superman’s lead teams on many occasions, shown tactical fighting, and one of his foes is Brainiac, a super-genius with powerful psionic ability and technology. It would be like combing Doctor Doom(minus the mystic stuff) with Professor X. So, in conclusion, on paper, Thor has the advantage in hand-to-hand combat skill and tactics. But in practice, I have never seen Thor out-do Superman in either. AND, in an issue of ACTION COMICS, Superman and Wonder Woman were brought to DC’s Asguard by DC’s Thor to help in Ragnarok(sp?). And after DC’s Thor died, Superman was the one leading the gods against the demons. And time passed differently there, so Superman was there for a thousand years(it showed him growing a long beard), so that takes away some(but not all) of Thor’s experience advantage on paper, too.
Now, I must say again that really, one beating the other could easily change depending on the circumstances, as both as two of the most powerful non-Skyfather level and up characters in comics(I’m talking Classic Thor), and a good writer could make a situation for Daredevil to single-handedly beat the JLA and Avengers combined and make it semi-plausible, and I do believe that Thor’s more POWERFUL than Superman, but I’ve stated my reasons why I give Superman a clear majority over Thor here and on the Top Ten Most Powerful.
@ Delta
holy crap man.
@ DM
lol Is that a good “holy crap man” or a bad one?
wow that Delta…that was a bunch of nothing
First off lets get on the strength. I would agree that Thor is weaker then Supes…not by much, but weaker. But that doesn’t matter because Thor has beat ppl stronger then him and Superman has lost to ppl weaker then him. But if this was a weight lifting contest, Superman would win…AGREED.
Speed: I would say both are tied in this square off. Thor has moved at the speed of light and even in the Secret Invasion he showed his speed against the Scrolls goddess. We all know the faster then a speeding bullet bull crap with Superman, so no need to go their. However both of these fighter, hardly ever use their speed in combat. Superman got killed by a raging hulk wana be doomsday, who is as slow as ur gona get. And he wasn’t zipping around like a fly he was trying to go two to two with him. So even if Superman is faster…I doubt he is going to use it in battle. So I would say TIE in this area
Stamina or Durability since we know both can fight for days n nights: Thor and Superman can both take A LOT of punishment, however I would say Superman could probably take a lil more then the God of Thunder. So in a fight of blows, Superman would crawl out of the ring…injured..but a winner. However since this would not be a fight of blows or rather a fight of blow to hammer blow…Superman’s stronger resistance to injury would matter. Because Superman’s punches are not stronger then a blow from the Mjöllnir. And if Superman gets hit dead on with the hammer, then its lights out…period.
Magic/Power: We all know Superman has laster eyes, ice breathe, super hearing, and super vision. However; known of those are going to help in a fight against Thor. Superman hardly even uses those powers and when is the last time laser eyes or ice breath killed a powerful opponent. Thor has lighting & thunder, control over the weather, a hammer that can open dimensions, and Odin Force(but Thor has too much honor to use the cosmic powers on a mortal, so I doubt he would tap into them). But its not Thor’s powers that would give him the advantage in this department, but more of the fact that their all magic base…Superman’s weakness. And yes lighting from the sky that is used on command to strike not north and south but east and west at the same spot over n over IS MAGICALLY BASED.
Fighting Ability: Well it is widely known that Superman is just a brawler…well that doesn’t go good when ur fighting someone who has lived for eons training himself in all arts of combat.@ Delta you said that Thor never uses his fighting ability but ur wrong, he has in fact beat Captain America hand to hand when he was stripped of his powers…and if that doesn’t strike you as amazing, then I dont know wut will. Captain America is the best hand to hand fighter in the Marvel universe and perhaps in any universe…could Superman beat Batman hand to hand with no powers…ummm no. But anyways in this department Thor wins without question.
So the fight would last some time, and I think it actually comes down to who goes all out first. But Thor could always end this fight by take Superman to a planet with a red star. However Thor just has too many strengths against Superman, and only plot twist could put the favor in Superman hands. Even if Superman was able to separate Thor from Mjöllnir, he could still call it at will, and as long as Thor was hitting Superman with Mjöllnir, the fight wont last long. And Thor has magical elements and cosmic attacks that could put Superman down for the count. The only chance superman would have is to keep Mjöllnir, out of Thor hands and just go toe to toe with him, however; when ur fighting a man who’s barley weaker then you but outclasses you in a fist fist fight…that could prove near impossible.
Thor wins this fight, and comes away with a few broken ribs and a broken jaw.
OK SonOfOdin, you say I give a bunch of nothing, and then respond with poor grammar, spelling, and ignore much of what I say when I had already countered points you make, before you even make them? OK now for me to argue with you.
Strength: Why did you even respond like this? “Duhhhhhhhhh I agree with Superman being stronger but ur wrongz!!!!1!1!!!” I did not say Superman was >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thor in strength. I said he was stronger. “Though I don’t think it’s by a massive margin, but they’re strength isn’t equal. It’s definately close enough that Thor can hold his own in a knock-down, drag-out, all-out brawl with the two only using strength, and it go on a while. But Superman is still stronger.” That’s how I ended my point on strength. So, you say the difference between their strength isn’t huge, so you argue with me that you agree with me? So what that Thor’s beat foes stronger than him and Superman’s lost to opponents weaker than him? IT’S COMICS!!!!! The reverse is also true: Thor’s lost to opponents weaker than him and Superman’s won against opponents stronger than him. Like Mongul(when Mongul was stronger, including a time Superman was deprived for weeks of yellow solar energy, he still knocked-out Mongul), Darkseid, Doomsday, Valor(M’Onel before he went to the 30th century, Daxamites were stronger and more powerful than Kryptonians at the time, dunno if they still are) when he was at the disadvantage(Valor had air in his lungs, Superman had ran-out of oxygen. They were both fighting around the Moon). So you should’ve just said, “Agreed that Superman’s stronger, though not by a huge difference.”
Speed: Why do you say they’re tied-off? Thor using Mjolnir to fly at lightspeed doesn’t mean much, that’s Mjolnir, not his combat speed. And I assume you mean the Skrull’s goddess? How fast was she? Was it ever stated? Normally it’s just the Superman clones in Marvel who have “super speed” beyond the speed of sound. Every instance I’ve seen of Thor’s combat speed and reflexes has put him under Spider-Man. And Superman can move and react at 99% of the speed of light, a lot faster than any bullet. He can even fly much faster than light when in space. And not only does Superman use his speed in combat much more often than Thor, but every time I’ve seen Thor do ANYTHING resembling combat super speed or reflexes has been nothing Spider-Man could not out-do, even without Spider-Sense warning him ahead of time. Why if I’m wrong did you not state one example? If that Skrull goddess thing was it, you did not give ANY details. Were they both fighting/reacting at super speed? How fast were they moving? Why, if Thor could move at speed to keep-up with Superman, did he have to have a time dialation to match Gladiator, who might not even be as fast as Superman in hand-to-hand combat(I WANT to say Gladiator’s far faster than lightspeed is limited to flight, but I could be wrong)? Why doesn’t he use his speed against the Hulk, EVER? And on your thing of Superman against Doomsday, first-off, Superman won. Second, Doomsday>Hulk. Doomsday is simply superior to Hulk, for several reasons. One of them is Doomsday has some super speed. It was stated he seemed faster than Flash, which one would normally think is hyperbole, but in this case he could have been. Both Superman and Flash were limited to only a few times the speed of sound during that time. This was when Wally was still powered down, I think it was a mental thing, and a year or two before discovering the Speed Force and becoming more powerful than he ever was, more powerful than any other Speed Force user. Superman specifically said that he needed to push it to keep-up with Doomsday. If Doomsday didn’t have at least some super speed, why would Superman need to move faster to keep-up? Maxima also had a degree of super speed, and while there’s nothing to show she was moving at her fastest, she was shocked at Doomsday dodging her blows. He was moving a lot faster than most of the heroes could keep up with, including three who did have at least some degree of super speed. So, no, Doomsday is not “slow as ur gonna get.” And I think you meant Superman went “toe-to-toe” with Doomsday, not “two to two.” Which would sound like saying “Two” three times. Superman used varied tactics, going “two-to-two” with Doomsday, using blitz tactics, ect. And it was planed to be the death of Superman, of course they’d want to make it dramatic. Show Superman’s courage and bravery and valor against Doomsday. And yeah, Superman doesn’t always use his speed advantage against enemies. Thor doesn’t use his various exotic abilities too often, either. But guess what? Superman uses his speed and other combat powers more often than Thor. So Superman’s more likely to use his speed advantage. And how the HELL do you get a “tie” in speed just because you doubt Superman would use his speed advantage? How is it a tie if he has it and Thor doesn’t?!! Just because I don’t bash you in the head with a baseball bat in a fight, but I have one and you don’t, doesn’t mean we’re tied on having a baseball bat as a weapon. I could still use it if I choose to.
Durability/Stamina: So, you concede Superman has the durability edge(stamina’s up in the air), but you think it won’t matter because of Mjolnir. It wasn’t “lights out” in JLA/AVENGERS so no, you’re wrong. Superman even caught Mjolnir. Oh, and when their fight was over, Superman was still standing before getting sucker-punched and jumped by five of the Avengers’ strongest powerhouses.
Magick/Power: Superman’s Heat Vision has already hurt Thor(though it wasn’t a pwning, it did hurt the Thunder god). It’s destroyed Imperiex Probes, which were wrecking entire TEAMS during OUR WORLDS AT WAR. When Superman used a full-intensity Heat Vision burst in his first fight with Doomsday, it hurt Doomsday. Doomsday had previously taken a combined energy assault from Superman(using lower-intensity Heat Vision; yeah you’d think he’d have gone full-blast considering I think he HIMSELF said to not hold back, pour it on, but looking at the beam, it actually produced fire or even plasma, and was MUCH bigger, and knocked Doomsday back), Martian Manhunter(posing as Bloodwynd), Booster Gold(going all-out, he drained his batteries), Fire(she went all-out and burned-out her powers) and Guy Gardner(who posed a yellow Power Ring, but just as powerful as a Green Lantern’s Ring, just without the weakness at the time). And Superman’s over-all power, including Heat Vision, have become more powerful since. Also Superman’s used his Heat Vision to cauterize holes in the fabric of reality. Basically burned it back into place. Again, he’s become more powerful since this. So, it will be useful against Thor. Not a deal breaker, but will hurt him. The freeze breath? Against someone who can go into the depths of space? Won’t hurt him, but the ice could become a temporary delay before Thor breaks-out, possibly. Which, if Superman’s using super speed, is a moderate help going at the speeds he can. Or a huge help if he moves so fast, Thor’s like a statue to him. And Thor’s weather control isn’t going to do him any good. IF Thor were to use out-of-control weather to endanger civilians then yes, it can be a useful distraction. But Thor’s a hero, not a villain, and thus won’t being doing things of that sort. And Thor can control thunder? THUNDER? You DO know that thunder is the SOUND accompanying lightning, RIGHT? So Thor does, WHAT, with thunder? Yes he’s the god OF THUNDER, but remember that he’s adapted from mythology. Thor was named the god of thunder because, if I recall correctly, his temper and the sound Mjolnir would make when striking stuff, made the sound of thunder. I don’t think he even controled the weather in Norse mythology, though I could be wrong. Thor in Marvel is far more powerful than in actual Norse mythology. Hercules in Marvel and DC are both far more powerful than in actual Greek mythology. Both are only like a few dozen times stronger than a normal man in their respective mythologies, but this was incomprehensible back then. But anyways, again, what can Thor DO with thunder? And what is Thor going to do with his teleportation? Yes, he can teleport himself and others through space, create dimensional portals, ect. But what good is it going to be in a fight with Superman? Thor teleports them to a solar system with a red star? How does Thor know that’s going to hinder Superman? Does he suddenly have a magick sense that tells him all of Superman’s weaknesses? Thor’s also got matter manipulation with Mjolnir, and might be able to make Kryptonite. But even if he can manipulate matter to the extent of elemental transmission, he does not know about Superman’s weakness to Kryptonite. And how is it the lightning Thor controls is magick? If it’s the ones coming from Mjolnir, I’ll buy that. But the potential lightning bolts in the atmosphere and surrounding environment that he causes to happen? No, I can’t see those being magick, just mystically controled. But the bolts themselves conventional. It’s not like Storm’s lightning bolts are psionic, they’re just controled psionically. Basically, it’d be like someone who can use magick to manipulate matter similar to telekinesis and throws a rock at Superman. The rock it’s self is nothing special, the fact that magick caused it to hit him means nothing. It’ll effect him just as much as someone with non-mystic telekinesis throwing the same rock at him with the same amount of force. But, even if it mattered, so many times Superman has withstood mystical energy attacks. Entrigan’s fire, mystical energy blasts from sorcerors and sorceresses to demons and angels to gods, ect. And KINGDOM COME was supposed to have been brought into continuity as a potential future, and Superman was not taken down by SEVERAL Shazam bolts, which aren’t actually lightning. And if Thor’s mystic nature were such an advantage, it didn’t show in his fight with Superman. Superman’s still won the majority of times against Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel. Oh and on the Odin Force, I’m referring to Classic Thor, not Odin-Thor. But it seems to me like Thor’s not any stronger than before if you’re conceding that Superman’s stronger and more durable. I thought Odin was quite a bit above Superman and Thor in the strength department.
Fighting Ability: I’ve NEVER seen Thor to be more than an average fighter with some decent experience. When it comes to actual fighting moves, Superman has shown superior Martial Arts skills numerous times, showing throws, preassure-point strikes, and kicks I’ve never seen Thor perform. I actually heard a couple years ago that Thor LOST to Captain America, and they never even mentioned Thor losing his powers, and the way they talked about it, it seemed recent. In Captain America’s first Silver Age appearence in an early AVENGERS issue, he made Thor(plus two other Avengers) look like a fool in hand-to-hand, and Thor HAD his powers. Yeah, the battle was not all-out, but Thor still had a piss-poor performance, against someone he’s supposed to be faster than(Asguardians are supposed to be at least Enhanced Human in speed, around the 60-70 MPH range) and has that supposed eons of training and experience. He’s fought evenly with Hercules hand-to-hand. Hercules is pretty much even with Thor, and has quite a bit of experience of his own, but isn’t Hercules younger than Thor by thousands of years? And hasn’t Thor had more battle experience over a few centuries of constant fighting with trolls and giants and such than Hercules has had his whole life? And Thor’s great hand-to-hand combat ability sure shows when he fights Hulk. Most of the times I’ve seen the two fight, Hulk didn’t have such a strength advantage that the skill Thor supposedly has wouldn’t give Thor a clear win. And on fighting ability, I don’t just mean hand-to-hand combat. Thor repeatedly goes straight to brawling against foes like Hulk and Juggernaut, who he has the disadvantage against hand-to-hand. Juggernaut’s force field/unstopability enchantment can actually be negated quite easily with Mjolnir and has been on only one occasion I’m aware of, but Thor goes straight into melee fighting against Juggy. And IF he uses his various other abilities, it’s only when he’s getting his ass kicked. Oh yeah and when Thor DID cancle that magick for unstopability Juggernaut has, he didn’t immediately curb-stomp Juggernaut like he should, if Thor’s got such great hand-to-hand combat skills honed from eons of training and experience. And I think Thor’s actually STRONGER than Juggernaut, it’s just the enchantment/force-field makes it so it doesn’t matter. And Captain Marvel is the best Martial Artist in the Marvel Universe? Possibly, but I’ve seen plenty of characters win, draw, or lose with Cap but give a good fight who aren’t even Peak Human. So if his fighting skills are so amazing then he should flat-out beat anyone who isn’t at least twice as strong as Spider-Man, as durable as Luke Cage, or can move at the speed of sound. And if a powerless Thor beat Captain America hand-to-hand, wouldn’t that make Thor the greatest hand-to-hand fighter in the Marvel Universe? And as to your question whether Superman, powerless, could beat Batman, hand-to-hand…..maybe. And yes, I’m serious. Wonder Woman’s close to him in strength, speed, durability and stamina, was trained by a hidden race of women warriors who did nothing for centuries but perfect their art of war, and has about as much experience as Superman to further hone the skills she was trained in. And Superman has twice stalemated Orion, who for a long time was supposed to be STRONGER than Superman(in fact their second fight, Superman had to sun-dip to match Orion, though he did not do this their first fight), AND on top of that was trained by the one who was supposed to be the greatest Martial Artist in the Universe and could put gods in agony with a touch. AND Orion is supposed to have “instinctual knowledge of war from through-out the universe” which would include Martial Arts. And should have about as much experience as Thor does. So, doesn’t that, well, kinda blow your arguement out of the water? On paper, Orion’s got the hand-to-hand combat advantage that utterly rapes what Thor has on paper, AND for a while was stronger than Superman. And Superman twice stalemated Orion. Once when Orion was stronger, another time when they were on even ground in the strength department. And I would have to say that Superman having to amp his strength with a sun dip says more about Orion than it does Superman, considering he was winning against a team of Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Big Barda, Supergirl, Steel and Superboy before Orion came into the picture. How well do you think Thor would do against that team, hand-to-hand? So, if Thor wins in this department without question, why did you only bring-up one impressive(but not amazing) example, and I brought-up more than one example against Thor, and more than one for Superman? Oh yeah, and at least one of those Orion fights, if not both, were before Superman fought Ragnorok for a thousand years, thus even on paper partially negating one of Thor’s advantages. But in practice, I have never seen Thor to have that advantage.
And on your last paragraph, why could Thor just end the fight by taking it to a system with a red star? Superman isn’t suddenly depowered in the presence of red solar energy. Not even Kryptonite suddenly depowers him. He was deprived of solar energy for weeks and still knocked Mongul out, and Mongul’s at worst been near Superman in strength, and for a while WAS stronger. And I already asked, how does Thor even KNOW that the light of a red star will have an efffect on him? Now, a concentrated beam will weaken him, but conventional red sun tanning will not suddenly make him as powerful as a normal human. There was no plot-twist in JLA/AVENGERS, Superman simply won the fight. Thor has been beaten before without a plot-twist. And while I concede that Thor’s various abilities with Mjolnir make him more POWERFUL, he rarely uses them and a number of them (weather control, teleportation, matter manipulaion, space warping) will have little or no use against Superman(remember, Thor doesn’t know about Kryptonite or what red solar energy does even if it were to immediately weaken Superman, and the only time I’ve seen space warping useful against an enemy was against Kane, but Kane was hiding behind a force-field. Superman’s not going to do that). Thor’s force-field that kept Hulk from bothering Thor having a conversation with daddy could be useful, but I’ve only seen him use it once that was not a situation where he had to contain something, or galaxies would be destroyed. And Thor’s various energy blasts would hurt Superman, but Superman’s more than tough enough to not be taken down by them, and fast enough to avoid them if they become too much trouble. I have never seen Thor fight or react at speeds Superman can achive, and your Skrull goddess example did not state how fast they went, nor if they were fighting hand-to-hand at super speed. In fact the best I could give Thor is him moving in slow motion compared to Superman, and the worst for Thor is him literally appearing as a statue to Superman. Which, granted, won’t be every single fight, but more often than Thor uses his abilities that would be most useful against Superman. And Superman doesn’t even NEED to use quarter all-out speed to beat Thor. And on Thor out-classing Superman in hand-to-hand combat skill, you gave ONE example to back-up your stance. I gave multiple examples to counter Thor’s supposed skill, and multiple examples to show Superman’s a much better fighter than people are aware of. So, at best, the gap in skill is moderate in Thor’s favor, which certainly does not compensate for Superman’s speed advantage. And barely compensates for Superman’s strength and durability advantage, which you conceded to. And I feel I’m being overly generous to entertain the possibility that Thor actually has a fighting skill advantage at all, considering everything I’ve seen from both Superman and Thor.
So, Superman again wins standing, worn but still in good shape, after the fight. Oh and if the only situation in which Superman could beat Thor is a near impossibility, then why is Thor in that bad of shape that he leaves with a broken jaw and a few broken ribs? Even after being jumped after his fight with Thor, Superman was in better shape than that.
These are some great posts. Delta, although I disagree with you, I like your reasoning. You should sign up to our brand new forums. We’re having a discussion about this there:
http://www.old-wizard.com/Forum/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=644c498a39b81d11d271a45fab1f783c
Oh and onto something TB said, about Thor could only beat Superman by destroying the sun but that being impossible. First: No, Thor can beat Superman without doing that, but I’ve stated and argued why Superman wins the majority numerous times, so I won’t get into it on this post. Second: Actually, it is possible for the sun to be destroyed. I’ve seen numerous characters in both DC and Marvel destroy stars or similar or equivilent feats, in a variety of ways. Could Thor do it? Perhaps. There’s a decent to good chance his energy absortion is powerful enough to extinguish the sun, but even if it is, I dunno if he could pull it off. I’ve mostly only seen him use Mjolnir to absorb energy directly moving at him, and if he can absorb ambient energy on a level required to extinguish the sun, he’d likely have to go into it. Which he has, so he could, but if this was DURING a fight, Superman would follow him, and then Thor’s in trouble. Superman even going near the sun amps him, and being inside it will boost his powers further, Thor’s stays the same, and Superman has a slight advantage in a hand-to-hand fight with Thor when the two are flying simply by the nature that Thor flies and how Superman flies. And even if Thor went into Warrior’s Madness, I doubt it would match Superman’s amped strength, not to mention he’ll KEEP getting stronger. Mjolnir does have matter manipulation abilities, but these are RARELY seen, and never has indicated that it could do something on the scope of altering a star to go super-nova or cause it to collapse on it’s self and become a black hole. But whether Thor can destroy the sun or not doesn’t matter, as that would doom the lives of over six billion people on Earth and a few thousand more in the solar system, so Thor wouldn’t do something like that. But if this fight were to be in space, Thor’s chances are even worse. Superman’s got a bit of an advantage in flying combat, and is immediately boosted when in space. So that strength and durability advantage a lot concede Superman has gets bigger.
Thanks Zeromage. I’m thinking about joining the forum, but the site takes a fairly long time to load on my current computer, and I’m afraid of what a full-blown forum would do. I need to get my gaming PC fixed, but for now have to use something boarderline antique.
So, why do you disagree with me?
First like you say, a fight between the current Thor and Superman is obviously no contest. The current Thor has so many powers that it seems ridiculous to even have a comic book about him. If you need any proof of that, look at how “easily” he destroyed the Asgardian Destroyer.
As for classic Thor, its my opinion that he has been poorly written by Marvel’s writers for some time. Given the catalog of powers he has I believe he is easily Marvel’s most powerful hero. Your argument that Superman uses his super speed more often than Thor is unconvincing to me. As I stated, there have been so many times when both heroes don’t use their powers when they should it renders such questions meaningless. To use a cliche, if I had a nickel for every time I said to myself “why doesn’t superman use his super speed”, well, let’s just say that O-W wouldn’t have any need for ads.
Thor (Eric Masterson’s Thor…which is considerably weaker than classic Thor) was able to handle the Gladiator with very little difficulty. I can be argued that Gladiator and Superman are about even powers-wise. I know there will be disagreements from Superman fanboys and Gladiator fanboys on this one. Note that Gladiator used super speed against Thor several times. Thor was able to react fast enough to counter him and ultimately defeat him. Thor has battled many opponents with Super speed, and has come out on top. And as stated, Thor has displayed a capacity to move as super speed himself.
In all other ways, a case can be made one way or the other when it comes to who can take more punishment or who is stronger. These questions are ultimately meaningless when you consider the magical edge Thor has. Really, what limits does Mjolnir have? Much like Dr. Strange it depends on who’s writing the comic book.
Magic is the deciding factor in this fight, IMO.
On the current Thor, that SonOfOdin guy made it seem like Thor’s strength and durability haven’t even increased, or hasn’t to the point that it even erases the gap between him and Superman. I did have a friend who’s a major Thor fan say Iron Man said Thor must have been working out, but that tells me little. And that’s all he could give me. And while normally an Odin-level character would beat Superman, it’s not impossible for Supes to win. This IS comics we’re talking about. In CRISIS, Earth-2 Superman smacked around the Anti-Monitor towards the end, and even the Anti-Monitor was shown as more powerful than multiple Pre-CRISIS Kryptonians and dozens of other metahumans. CLASSIC Thor has defeated Galactus. It depends on the circumstances the writer makes. But under normal circumstances, no. Though I wonder, did Thor get the entirty of the Odin-Power? I remember an issue of Thor from the 80′s, Thor, Loki and Odin had been working together against Surtur, and something happened that caused Odin and Surtur to disappear, I think the ground opening them up like Hell(or Hel) was swallowing them. Thor was wanting revenge for his father’s death and I clearly remember Loki stoping Thor by saying if Odin had died, him and Thor would know, because they would have recieved his power. So, are Thor and Loki sharing it?
And on classic Thor, there’s many arguements that Silver Surfer is more powerful than classic Thor. Both his energy manipulation and matter manipulation powers are on a higher scale, and he can in theory use the Power Cosmic to reach any level of strength Thor could potentially have, though he doesn’t use it, rarely ever increases his strength it seems. I don’t think he’s even stronger than Rogue, without amping it. Yeah, he conceded that Thor was more powerful, and Thor’s beaten him, but I’ve stated that one character beating another doesn’t automally mean they’re more powerful(Spider-Man beating Firelord, anyone? By making him get hit by an EXPLODING GAS STATION?!!?!?! The least impressive durability feat I’ve seen of Firelord is being uninjured from a NUKE!!!!!), and writers have changed how the Hearlds get treated on the power heirachy compared to the Asguardians since the Silver Age. And of course, even popular characters tend to get mistreated. A brick to the head for Silver Surfer, Silver Surfer being knocked-out by some South American ranch guy with a hammer, Storm beating Wonder Woman(who’s taken FAR FAR FAR FAR more potent energy than a few lightning bolts), did I mention Firelord losing to Spider-Man? So it’s a little weak to say Thor being mistreated.
And you haven’t convinced me Thor can match Superman’s speed. You gave me one example of Thor fighting someone with at least super sonic speed, but I mentioned a fight between the real Thor and Gladiator, where he only was able to fight Gladiator by a time dialation slowing down Glad. Hyperion is the only other one I’m aware of that Thor’s fought(I think both Hyperions) that has super speed at all in a combat sense. Sure, he’s fought Silver Surfer, for example. But I don’t think of Silver Surfer as having combat super speed, in the sense we’re discussing. I read a long debate on that before, and even those who argued Silver Surfer has super speed reflexes conceded that it was likely they had to be actively used, perhaps only when traveling through space. And the only times I’ve ever seen him have what could be argued as super speed reflexes WAS when he was traveling at hyperspace speeds.
And on you saying my arguement of Superman using his speed more often is unconvincing, I’ve already stated the same thing about Thor’s various other abilities. Why does he never use various energy blasts against Hulk? Why doesn’t he just use teleportation to battlefield remove Juggernaut or Hulk into some distant star, a black hole, or some other dimension they can’t escape? Why doesn’t he always use Mjolnir to cancle Juggernaut’s enchantment/force-field when they fight? Why does he go melee against the Destroyer when he KNOWS what the Destroyer can do and how much stronger than him it is and not just immediatly teleport it out of there? Or Hell, if Thor can cancle Juggernaut’s enchantment/force-field after detecting how it works, you’d think he could cancle the life-force animating thing that actually, well, animates the Destroyer. Or at least use it to find where the person who’s spirit is host to the Destroyer is to threaten it and force the life force back into the person/being/alien/whatever. I’ve read a number of AVENGERS comics where I can go, “Why didn’t Thor use Ability X?” that if I had a penny for each time, I’d rival Bill Gates in wealth…..if I only looked at the interest my bank accounts generated. Yeah, Mjolnir wasn’t really given any limits on what it could do, as far as I know. It’s a Plot-Device. But something that Thor has needed more than the times you’d go, “Why doesn’t Superman use his speed?” and a number of abilities either would be useless against Superman, or have little use. But if you’re arguing on the magick edge just on what Mjolnir can do, that has contradicted the reason Superman’s put above Doctor Strange, having beaten mystic opponents before. Though I haven’t found anything telling who wrote the article in question, so I have no idea if you’re contradicting yourself or not.
But, between Thor rarely using Mjolnir’s various abilities in general, let along the ones that could really help Superman, and Supes having faced numerous mystic foes, I don’t see magick being the edge you do. Orion is probably DC’s Thor equivilent, seeming to have no real restrictions or limits between his Mother Box and Astro-Force. Superman’s stalemated him, and this included when Orion was shown to be STRONGER than Superman.
gah In that last paragraph, “–let along the ones that could really help Superman–” was meant to be “–let alone the ones that could really help against Superman–” Sorry, sleep deprived.